Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

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Aemilius
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Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

Post by Aemilius »

nyonchung wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:46 am
Malcolm wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 11:59 am
Aemilius wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:58 am

The real reasons are not available for discussion. This means that there were hidden, secret and esoteric practices going on already at the time of Shakyamuni, what we find in the sutra/suttas describes only the aspects that were/are available for public discourse. Something else takes place simultaneously in the dark, so to speak. This can be called spiritual warfare, and it had new developments in the centuries after the beginning of the common era. The influence of Buddha Shakyamuni and his teaching had spread through the continents of this planet, and the secret & invisible spiritual war or battle for supremacy had never been confined to India. Big and small cultures on all continents have always been involved. May all beings living in the ten directions and three times be happy and have the causes of happiness!
:alien: :alien: :alien: :alien:
Yeah :spy: men in black
It is not MIBs, it is something else. It would be naive in the extreme to suppose that the religions in power didn't do anything and are not doing anything, when on the market appeared new rivals from India, Japan, China, Korea, Tibet Autonomous Region, Thailand, Burma, etc.. But this is something that cannot be talked about, there is so little evidence, though it most certainly exists. You could send spies into the inner circles of churches and certain political parties to find out their methods and practices in counteracting and annihilating the buddhists. Or you could start a Dharma centre and then you would find out what happens to you and to your activities (that benefit the mankind and other beings).
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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nyonchung
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Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

Post by nyonchung »

Oh, I see what you perhaps mean
but well, men in black anyway :spy:
there is obviously certain sectors or organistion trying to manupate (with cash often - a bodhisattva must ne wary of his sponsors), I consider that "protestant buddhism" was, in my opinion an attempt of takeover (deculturation) by some Westerners of Buddharam to fit their own goals (call this neo-colonialism) , there are attemps to even destroy it. But they have, specially in Tibet's case, claraly polical anf-g ceopolitical aspects.

The small Tibetan community in exile is an easy target (in a very fragile position in fact) . Easy also to manipulate to the old but still alive sectarian fractures. The Bristish dit it long before. And I suspect that the long chain of scandals is partly manipulated. By different actors.
So called oecumenism has serious limits (I found out with catholics in two specific cases - there was at the back a fanstastic hostilty)
But this is polical / geopolitical than :alien: , Tibet has large resources ...
then :focus:
Some say that jaïnas resisted better by a better organisation of the lay community
It is quite possible that in Pala times, in whta is UP and Bihar now (Bihar being derived from vihara, monastery) sujects of the large monastic estates wher possibly largely nominal Buddhist folloing traditionnla local cults (yakshas) that were slowly taken over by shïvas (Bhairava cults ) and shakyas (Devi cults)
plus certainly te rulers granting more and more land to brahmans and dhmas (hindu monasteries)
plusnbuddhist monks were possibly bad managers (this was the case in Tibetan)
Last edited by nyonchung on Thu Nov 11, 2021 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
MGeorge116
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Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

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The destruction of Nalanda University by Muslim invaders.
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Zhen Li
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Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

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MGeorge116 wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:59 pm The destruction of Nalanda University by Muslim invaders.
Nalanda continued to function as a university for at least a century or more after it was sacked and burned. As others have noted, if we are considering India as a whole, Buddhists continued to practice in certain regions until at least the 17th century, and of course to the present day in Nepal, whose Buddhist traditions were largely contiguous with those of Northern India. There's no one cause for Buddhism's decline, but rather many causes.
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Aemilius
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Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

Post by Aemilius »

Say, if Oxford and Cambridge and the famous universities in Germany were totally destroyed and the professors and students were all beheaded, -the ones that were found-, the remains in human capacity for learning woud still continue for some time, because it has been embedded in the human habit and memory.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Kai lord
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Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

Post by Kai lord »

MGeorge116 wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:59 pm The destruction of Nalanda University by Muslim invaders.
That was the finishing blow, not the causes. One can look at the degenerating state of sangha, rise of unvirtuous actions, lack of prominent buddhist scholars/ debaters and the rise of Vedanta thanks to sankara for a start to the decline of buddhism in India.
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Aemilius
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Re: Why Buddhism's Decline in India?

Post by Aemilius »

Kai lord wrote: Sun May 15, 2022 3:00 am
MGeorge116 wrote: Sun Mar 20, 2022 8:59 pm The destruction of Nalanda University by Muslim invaders.
That was the finishing blow, not the causes. One can look at the degenerating state of sangha, rise of unvirtuous actions, lack of prominent buddhist scholars/ debaters and the rise of Vedanta thanks to sankara for a start to the decline of buddhism in India.
You can't really be sure of any of the claims that you have stated. So much time has passed, that it is difficult to know. Also as the vast library of Nalanda was burned down by the muslims, most of the documents of their intellectual and spiritual activity have been destroyed.

Apohavada or the Buddhist epistemolgical school is a later and important development in Buddhist Dharma, and we know something about it,

"Some of the figures of the epistemological school include:

Īśvarasena, a disciple of Dignāga, and teacher of Dharmakīrti
Śaṅkarasvāmin, wrote an introduction to Dignāga's logic
Jinendrabuddhi (7th or 8th century), a commentator on Dignāga's Pramanasamuccaya
Bāhuleya, a commentator on Dignāga's Nyāyamukha
Śāntarakṣita (725–788), merged the pramana tradition with Madhyamaka
Kamalaśīla, a student of Śāntarakṣita
Śubhakara (650–750), was particularly noteworthy because he composed a work which aimed at proving the objective reality of external things and thus attempted to disprove Vijñānavāda (the doctrine of consciousness, idealism)
Śākyabuddhi (ca. 700 C.E.), wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Pramāṇavārttika
Chandragomin, purported author of the *Nyāyasiddhyāloka
Dharmottara (8th century), a philosopher from Kashmir who wrote some independent works and also a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Nyāyabindu and on his Pramanaviniscaya.
Anandavardhana, wrote a sub commentary to Dharmottara's Pramana-viniscaya commentary.
Vinītadeva (8th century), wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Nyāyabindu
Śāntabhadra, wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Nyāyabindu
Jinamitra, wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Nyāyabindu
Devendrabuddhi (7th century), wrote various commentaries, including one on Dharmakīrti's Pramāṇavārttika
Karṇakagomin, wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Pramāṇavārttika
Manorathanandin, wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Pramāṇavārttika
Śakyamati, wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Pramāṇavārttika
Arcaṭa, wrote a commentary on Dharmakīrti's Hetubindu
Prajñakaragupta (740–800 C.E.), author of the Pramāṇavārttikālaṅkāra ("Ornament of the Pramāṇavārttikā")
Jina, a follower of Prajñakaragupta
Ravigupta, a follower of Prajñakaragupta
Yamari, a follower of Prajñakaragupta
Śubhagupta (720–780), was a Vaibhāṣika writer on pramana, according to Kamalaśīla
Śaṅkaranandana (10th century), a prolific author of at least 17 texts, known as "the second Dharmakīrti."
Jñanasrimitra (975–1025), a "gate-scholar" at Vikramashila who wrote several original works
Paṇḍita Aśoka (980–1040)
Jñanasribhadra (1000–1100), wrote a commentary on the Pramāṇaviniścaya (Dharmakīrti)
Jayanta (1020–1080), author of the Pramāṇavārttikālaṅkāraṭīkā, a commentary on Prajñakaragupta's text.
Jitāri or Jetāri (940–1000), teacher of Atisha and author of numerous pramana texts.
Durvekamiśra (970–1030), a disciple of Jitāri
Ratnakīrti (11th century), a student of Jñanasrimitra
Mokṣākaragupta (11th–12th centuries), author of the Tarkabhāṣā
Vidyākaraśānti (1100–1200), author of the Tarkasopāna
Śākyaśrībhadra, a Kashmiri pandita who was the teacher of the Tibetan Sakya Pandita"

from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_ ... _tradition
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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