6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post Reply
User avatar
dzam
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:14 am

6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by dzam »

Tashi Deleg! Namaste!

Does anybody know any lamas who give empowerments of and teach 6 yogas of Niguma in the US?
I received the 6 Yogas with Taranatha comments from a Jonang Lama residing in Moscow last year.
Then I moved to USA and I am interested to get in touch with those who practice the method.

I appreciate sharing your knowledge.
Danny
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: 6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by Danny »

Dagpo Kagyu.
Not aware of any centers in US as most Kagyu are the other Karmapas centers. I think it’s mostly a European concern and lineage lines are there.

Much love towards dagpo brothers and sisters.

All the best.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
Posts: 7885
Joined: Wed May 29, 2013 6:13 am

Re: 6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

dzam wrote: Fri Oct 16, 2020 2:49 am Tashi Deleg! Namaste!

Does anybody know any lamas who give empowerments of and teach 6 yogas of Niguma in the US?
I received the 6 Yogas with Taranatha comments from a Jonang Lama residing in Moscow last year.
Then I moved to USA and I am interested to get in touch with those who practice the method.

I appreciate sharing your knowledge.
The only Jonang center I know of is in Brooklyn.

Taranatha was also Shangpa Kagyu. I believe they do Niguma’s version of the 6 Yogas too. However they are advanced practices taught usually at the end of the 3 year retreat. I doubt you’ll find instruction on them in a casual setting.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 5707
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: 6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by conebeckham »

Danny wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:15 am Dagpo Kagyu.
Not aware of any centers in US as most Kagyu are the other Karmapas centers. I think it’s mostly a European concern and lineage lines are there.

Much love towards dagpo brothers and sisters.

All the best.
Actually, all the 3 year retreat centers founded by Kyabje Kalu Rinpcohe and his disciples maintain the Six Yogas of Niguma along with the other Shangpa Kagyu practices. I don't know of anyone who teaches them outside of strict retreat, though.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Danny
Posts: 1043
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:43 pm

Re: 6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by Danny »

conebeckham wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:18 am
Danny wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:15 am Dagpo Kagyu.
Not aware of any centers in US as most Kagyu are the other Karmapas centers. I think it’s mostly a European concern and lineage lines are there.

Much love towards dagpo brothers and sisters.

All the best.
Actually, all the 3 year retreat centers founded by Kyabje Kalu Rinpcohe and his disciples maintain the Six Yogas of Niguma along with the other Shangpa Kagyu practices. I don't know of anyone who teaches them outside of strict retreat, though.
That’s very interesting.
I edited my post because I was very curious about the inquiry. I thought it was weird but decided to err on caution, and not come across as authoritative....
User avatar
nyonchung
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:33 pm
Location: France

Re: 6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by nyonchung »

conebeckham wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:18 am
Danny wrote: Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:15 am Dagpo Kagyu.
Not aware of any centers in US as most Kagyu are the other Karmapas centers. I think it’s mostly a European concern and lineage lines are there.

Much love towards dagpo brothers and sisters.

All the best.
Actually, all the 3 year retreat centers founded by Kyabje Kalu Rinpcohe and his disciples maintain the Six Yogas of Niguma along with the other Shangpa Kagyu practices. I don't know of anyone who teaches them outside of strict retreat, though.
Hello,
Kyabjé Kalu Rinpoché was following (via Tsatsa monastery's tradition) the system compiled and reorganized by Jamgön Kongtrül, implying necessarily the transmission in the context of the so-called "traditionnal" three-years retreat
Nevertheless (this is my own case) you could recieve the pre-retreat Shangpa tranmsissions without entering the retreat itself - BUT as you mentioned somewhere else this is not including the very specific Niguma blessing+instructions
So maybe somtehing of that kind is involved ...
I read a vast amount of biographies of all schools and through the details of some "records of teachings received" (gsan yig / thob yig) including the one by Künga Drölchog, and quite often the six teachings of Niguma were transmited as such - widely among Sakyapas, specially Ngorpas and Tsarpas, Jonangpas of course, Gelugpas as well, not to mention the Zhalupas, Bara-kagyüpas ...
So maybe this is the case here - but I doubt the full instructions were given (and according to which commentarial tradition - from Taranatha we can guess). Whatever it was usually given in a restricted way, to small audiences, people dedicated to retreat with a strong background of practice

To give a good example (see for instance Snellgrove's "Four Lamas of Dolpo"), in a Ngorpa context, the six yogas were often given after years of intensive Lamdré practice ...

Not long before his untimely demise, Kyabjé Bokar Rinpoché told me that he considered at some point the possibilty of fractionning (for Westerners) the three years retreat in separate sequences and that, as a lineage holder, he saw this as a real possibility.
The idea being, you can practice without the promise of a lama title at the end (quite looked after in France, Lord knows why) but nevertheless intense and solitary practice (we talk of a ten years schedule of alternating study / practice).

Back to the topic, possibly such specific Nigu retreats are still going on in Dzamthang or somewhere in Amdo - but well, not for beginners. It implies necessarily a full initiation, and the commitments attached.

Whatever, wish this will be a fruitful connection ...
User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 5707
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: 6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by conebeckham »

^Good post.

It seems that Yangsi Kalu Rinpoche has been teaching some Shangpa practices, but I do not know if they are complete or systematic. Previously, at least from prior Kalu Rinpoche's agents in the West, these were very rarely given or practiced outside of the 3 year retreat, as noted.

The Six Yogas, including the Trulkhor, are normally engaged in after the first year or so of practice focusing on ngondro, lojong, and KyeRim practices from both Kamtsang and Shangpa lineages. It is the tradition of Jetsun Taranatha that you need to elaborate WangKur of Niguma's Five Deity Chakrasamvara, as well as a couple other less elaborate empowerments relating to that mandala, and to the Condensed practice of the Five Tantra's Deities, and that those practices are "engaged with" for a period prior to getting the Wangs and instructions for the Completion Stage practices. There's a Ngondro, as well, for Nigu ChoDruk and for all the 5 Golden Dharmas of the Shangpa Kagyu transmission as systematized by Kongtrul. Kalu Rinpoche, and later Bokar Rinpoche, bestowed these in retreat settings, and as I understand it Bokar Rinpoche bestowed them to the monastic community at Mirik before his passing.

Unlike Naropa's Six Yogas, the Shangpa system has an associated "jenang" or empowerment for each of the yogas, as well as the instructions that are bestowed, normally at the time one engages in the successive practices. There are two main lineages Kongtrul transmitted, Taranatha's being the Long one, and Thangtong Gyalpo's being the more recent. There are other shorter lineages of the various Five Golden Dharmas, and also a lot of instruction manuals came later, from later masters, and there were some additional practices that are not often transmitted-even in three year retreat; various forms of Mahakala Chagdrupa as well as practices of Vajravidarana, Vajrapani, and others. But I think Bokar Rinpoche passed on everything to Khenpo Lodro Donyo Rinpoche, and possibly to others as well. Tenga Rinpoche was also a main source of these transmissions in the Karma Kagyu, and I believe both Tai Situ Rinpoche and Gyaltsab Rinpoche have the entire transmission as well. You can find all this in the DamNgak Dzo, as well, though some masters do not give all the wangs included in that collection.

Hope that helps, for those interested in this lineage of practice. It is a treasure.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
User avatar
nyonchung
Posts: 256
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:33 pm
Location: France

Re: 6 Yogas of Niguma in Jonang tradition

Post by nyonchung »

conebeckham wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 12:51 am ^Good post.

It seems that Yangsi Kalu Rinpoche has been teaching some Shangpa practices, but I do not know if they are complete or systematic. Previously, at least from prior Kalu Rinpoche's agents in the West, these were very rarely given or practiced outside of the 3 year retreat, as noted. But I think Bokar Rinpoche passed on everything to Khenpo Lodro Donyo Rinpoche, and possibly to others as well. Tenga Rinpoche was also a main source of these transmissions in the Karma Kagyu, and I believe both Tai Situ Rinpoche and Gyaltsab Rinpoche have the entire transmission as well. You can find all this in the DamNgak Dzo, as well, though some masters do not give all the wangs included in that collection.

Hope that helps, for those interested in this lineage of practice. It is a treasure.
As for Bokar Rinpoché (1940-2004), this for younger readers, I heard once (autumn 1983) in Sonada Kalu Rinpoché answering (front of a mostly western audience) to the question "how many disciples do you have"(1940-2004):"only one, Bokar Tülku"
As far as Bokar Rinpoché was concerned (as scholars say "personal communication") he decided not to travel anymore in the West (specially France and for good reasons) and, quite specifically ,to give the Shangpa transmissions in retreat centers there (he felt that motivation was poor) - but he made known that, definitely, if people were dedicated enough, they could come to Mirik ... seems nobody listened.
To the best of my knowledge, Rinpoché gave in Mirik at least twice the Shangpa transmissions.

As for Tenga Rinpoché, he certainly received the full transmission from Kalu Rinpoché and transmitted it in Pharphing (also twice I think). It's also transmitted in Tibet in Benchen and I think some good retreat masters are available.
Tenga Rinpoché also gave the tranmission for a retreat center in Spain.
As for Gyaltsab Rinpoché, I can confirm that, long ago ('82?), during the ground consecration of what is now the "Temple des Mille Bouddhas" Kalu Rinpoché designated him formally and publicly as a Dharma heir, along with Bokar Rinpoché (who xwas the supposed to becomme the reisdent teacher there but ...).

As for the Yangsi, it seems (from Mirik lore) that he never completed his retreat and that, anyway, the retreat master left. He possibly received some from Situ Rinpoché, and he anyway received very young the Dam-ngag Dzö from Gyaltsab Rinpoché.
There was some project of restarting the retreat center in Kagyü Ling, what happened next? difficult after successive scandals. And no retreat master available.

Otherwise, Lha bzhi dril grub is a beautiful practice - one of my teachers accepted that karma-kagyü ngöndro were acceptable as a prerequisite.
One can also receive Chagdrugpa, etc ... enough to make oneself busy for years. But this was on an absolutely personnal basis, not public teachings. Not to make myself proud, but to encourage others to practice regularly and keep in touch with competent teachers.
And of course, no contradiction with practicing along Dagpo-kagyü systems, and Nyingmas or Sakya or Gelug (I don't mention Jonang again , since they are for this similar transmissions since Künga Drölchog)

All the best in deep and clear wisdom
Post Reply

Return to “Jonang”