Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

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Grigoris
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Grigoris »

What is the source of Right View? The Dharma.

Who Taught the Dharma? The Buddha.

How do you access the Dharma? Via the Sangha.

REFUGE!

Who points out the nature of mind? The teacher.

How do they point out the nature of mind? Via the teachings.

What is nature of mind? The enlightened essence of all sentient beings.

REFUGE!
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
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White Sakura
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by White Sakura »

right but: Is that possible at the moment where he lives? Just saying, in Germany no master arrives at the moment. It is possible to meet a Lama, but normally his Guru comes, who is also our Guru and the Guru is in India since the pandemic started. Usually many Rinpoches come to Berlin during the summer. None of them comes....
It is not allowed to fly from India or Nepal into the EU.
Which trustworthy Rinpoche, Dzogchen or Mahamudra masters live in the US? Are there any visits announced?
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Aryjna
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Aryjna »

Grigoris wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:17 am What is the source of Right View? The Dharma.

Who Taught the Dharma? The Buddha.

How do you access the Dharma? Via the Sangha.

REFUGE!

Who points out the nature of mind? The teacher.

How do they point out the nature of mind? Via the teachings.

What is nature of mind? The enlightened essence of all sentient beings.

REFUGE!
That is true, but taking refuge with its most essential meaning, which is the interest to learn, practice, etc., he already has that covered. If not, there is nothing that can be done anyway.
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by White Sakura »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:25 am
As far as Dzogchen goes, read everything you can by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. Los of his teachings are still available and they are gold, they are utterly unlike anything else in my (biased) opinion, and we are lucky to still have his words accessible.
I agree with Grigoris: The user, who asked, needs to take refuge and therefore meet an incarnate Lama. Then he can read his books and teaching notes, that sangha members will give him.
I mean, if this is possible. Maybe it is very difficult at the moment...
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Grigoris
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

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Aryjna wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:27 amThat is true, but taking refuge with its most essential meaning, which is the interest to learn, practice, etc., he already has that covered.
No, Refuge is more than that.

I may be interested in learning about bomb making. I may put this learning to practice...

Is this Refuge?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Aryjna
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Aryjna »

Grigoris wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:32 am
Aryjna wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:27 amThat is true, but taking refuge with its most essential meaning, which is the interest to learn, practice, etc., he already has that covered.
No, Refuge is more than that.

I may be interested in learning about bomb making. I may put this learning to practice...

Is this Refuge?
I don't disagree that it is more, but in this case the essential thing is the interest.

A supporting quote from The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech:
In brief, the difference between making a prayer and taking refuge lies precisely in the fact that the true object of refuge for beginners is the
Dharma itself-the practice of the Dharma within one's mind. It is crucial to grasp this essential point.
He is already interested in practicing, which seems to cover this point.
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Grigoris
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Grigoris »

Until I am enlightened, I take refuge
In the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
Through the merit I create by practicing giving and the other perfections
May I attain Buddhahood for the sake of all sentient beings.

Sangye choe dang tsok kyi chok nam la
Jang chup bar du dak ni kyap su chi
Dak gi jin sok gyi pay sonam kyi
Dro la phen chir sangye drup par shok
It is all there. The beginning, middle and end of the path and the motivation.

It does not get more essential than that.
Last edited by Grigoris on Sat Jul 04, 2020 10:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
muni
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by muni »

Having good heart as basis makes things easier.

This is not specific for Buddhism. But without for sure: "my" obscurations continue to flourish very well.
Good heart gives the divided mind less power, supports a clearer lens.
Good heart, mind purifies easier.

Nobody needs to agree.
We cannot even begin to commit ourselves to the path of selfless compassion if our mind is unable to sense the sameness of the ground we all stand upon. Khandro Rinpoche.

When remaining in awareness itself, every thought movement, no matter what kind, is like a drawing in air.
Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UOcXiBGGb8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HySLYcu2ULA
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by SteRo »

NateLeo wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:40 am
So i want to know: what exactly is the first, most fundamental concept i need to realize first if i atleast want to reach the first stage of awakening in this life?
Thanks again!
Stream Entry is a sravaka concept. The most fundamental concepts in that context are self-identity views, attachment to rites and rituals and doubt - these have to be abandoned.
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Grigoris
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Grigoris »

SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:54 pmStream Entry is a sravaka concept.
No it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Caoimhghín »

Grigoris wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pmNo it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.
This has been discussed with this user before: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=33746&start=20#p535388

Dialogue didn't go very far.
Then, the monks uttered this gāthā:

These bodies are like foam.
Them being frail, who can rejoice in them?
The Buddha attained the vajra-body.
Still, it becomes inconstant and ruined.
The many Buddhas are vajra-entities.
All are also subject to inconstancy.
Quickly ended, like melting snow --
how could things be different?

The Buddha passed into parinirvāṇa afterward.
(T1.27b10 Mahāparinirvāṇasūtra DĀ 2)
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Grigoris
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Grigoris »

Caoimhghín wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:44 pm
Grigoris wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pmNo it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.
This has been discussed with this user before: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=33746&start=20#p535388

Dialogue didn't go very far.
I am not discussing it for the benefit of the particular user, as they are a classic case of "full cup" (a polite term for what I actually want to call him).

I am just correcting the information so that the other posters here are not lead astray. ;)
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Malcolm »

Grigoris wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pm
SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:54 pmStream Entry is a sravaka concept.
No it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.
Greg is correct.
Momento mori.
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Malcolm »

SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:54 pm
NateLeo wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:40 am
So i want to know: what exactly is the first, most fundamental concept i need to realize first if i atleast want to reach the first stage of awakening in this life?
Thanks again!
Stream Entry is a sravaka concept. The most fundamental concepts in that context are self-identity views, attachment to rites and rituals and doubt - these have to be abandoned.
The same three fetters are abandoned on the first bhumi, hence first stage bodhisattvas are Mahayana stream entrants.
Momento mori.
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Aemilius »

NateLeo wrote: Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:40 am Evening again,

Since i recently got started in Buddhism, i been reading alot lately, but i just got the sudden need to slow down.
I have a bad habit of jumping into things and trying to absorb so many of the advanced concepts first, and i need to stop that.

That being said, i feel like I've overloaded myself with so many concepts and i realize i need to just keep it simple with a set foundation.

So i want to know: what exactly is the first, most fundamental concept i need to realize first if i atleast want to reach the first stage of awakening in this life?
Thanks again!
In entering the stream therein is found no dharma or concept of "entering the stream".
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by SteRo »

Aemilius wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:19 pm ...
In entering the stream therein is found no dharma or concept of "entering the stream".
it´s like jumping from one patch of space in space to next patch of space in space. Nothing is entered. nothing left behind, so only sravakas enter from one illusion into another.
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Malcolm »

SteRo wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:02 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:19 pm ...
In entering the stream therein is found no dharma or concept of "entering the stream".
it´s like jumping from one patch of space in space to next patch of space in space. Nothing is entered. nothing left behind, so only sravakas enter from one illusion into another.
Facile, at best. The old "It's all emptiness dude" retort.
Momento mori.
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

White Sakura wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:28 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:25 am
As far as Dzogchen goes, read everything you can by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. Los of his teachings are still available and they are gold, they are utterly unlike anything else in my (biased) opinion, and we are lucky to still have his words accessible.
I agree with Grigoris: The user, who asked, needs to take refuge and therefore meet an incarnate Lama. Then he can read his books and teaching notes, that sangha members will give him.
I mean, if this is possible. Maybe it is very difficult at the moment...
People are free to approach things however they want to.
Don’t you see what’s wrong with the world today? Oh Everybody wants somebody to be their own piece of clay.

-Marvin Gaye
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by White Sakura »

NateLeo wrote: Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:45 am
Hey, im in the US on the east coast. the Tibetan/Dzogchen teachings tend to resonate with me the most, so if you know any teachers along those lines in America, i'll gladly contact.

My thing is i prefer personal recommendations. Ive heard bad things about a few teachers who abused students, so i'd much rather get a recommendation from a site like this with people (like you) who know their shit and have good character.
That is what the new user asked for. And I cannot answer since I live in Germany.
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Grigoris
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Re: Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Post by Grigoris »

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"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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