Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

Grigoris · Post by **Grigoris** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:17 am

What is the source of Right View? The Dharma.

Who Taught the Dharma? The Buddha.

How do you access the Dharma? Via the Sangha.

REFUGE!

Who points out the nature of mind? The teacher.

How do they point out the nature of mind? Via the teachings.

What is nature of mind? The enlightened essence of all sentient beings.

REFUGE!

White Sakura · Post by **White Sakura** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:24 am

right but: Is that possible at the moment where he lives? Just saying, in Germany no master arrives at the moment. It is possible to meet a Lama, but normally his Guru comes, who is also our Guru and the Guru is in India since the pandemic started. Usually many Rinpoches come to Berlin during the summer. None of them comes....
It is not allowed to fly from India or Nepal into the EU.
Which trustworthy Rinpoche, Dzogchen or Mahamudra masters live in the US? Are there any visits announced?

Aryjna · Post by **Aryjna** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:27 am

Grigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:17 am What is the source of Right View? The Dharma.

Who Taught the Dharma? The Buddha.

How do you access the Dharma? Via the Sangha.

REFUGE!

Who points out the nature of mind? The teacher.

How do they point out the nature of mind? Via the teachings.

What is nature of mind? The enlightened essence of all sentient beings.

REFUGE!

That is true, but taking refuge with its most essential meaning, which is the interest to learn, practice, etc., he already has that covered. If not, there is nothing that can be done anyway.

White Sakura · Post by **White Sakura** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:28 am

Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:25 am
As far as Dzogchen goes, read everything you can by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. Los of his teachings are still available and they are gold, they are utterly unlike anything else in my (biased) opinion, and we are lucky to still have his words accessible.

I agree with Grigoris: The user, who asked, needs to take refuge and therefore meet an incarnate Lama. Then he can read his books and teaching notes, that sangha members will give him.
I mean, if this is possible. Maybe it is very difficult at the moment...

Grigoris · Post by **Grigoris** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:32 am

Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:27 amThat is true, but taking refuge with its most essential meaning, which is the interest to learn, practice, etc., he already has that covered.

No, Refuge is more than that.

I may be interested in learning about bomb making. I may put this learning to practice...

Is this Refuge?

Aryjna · Post by **Aryjna** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:38 am

Grigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:32 am
Aryjna wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:27 amThat is true, but taking refuge with its most essential meaning, which is the interest to learn, practice, etc., he already has that covered.
No, Refuge is more than that.

I may be interested in learning about bomb making. I may put this learning to practice...

Is this Refuge?

I don't disagree that it is more, but in this case the essential thing is the interest.

A supporting quote from The Nectar of Manjushri's Speech:

In brief, the difference between making a prayer and taking refuge lies precisely in the fact that the true object of refuge for beginners is the
Dharma itself-the practice of the Dharma within one's mind. It is crucial to grasp this essential point.

He is already interested in practicing, which seems to cover this point.

Grigoris · Post by **Grigoris** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:49 am

Until I am enlightened, I take refuge
In the Buddha, Dharma and Sangha.
Through the merit I create by practicing giving and the other perfections
May I attain Buddhahood for the sake of all sentient beings.

Sangye choe dang tsok kyi chok nam la
Jang chup bar du dak ni kyap su chi
Dak gi jin sok gyi pay sonam kyi
Dro la phen chir sangye drup par shok

It is all there. The beginning, middle and end of the path and the motivation.

It does not get more essential than that.

muni · Post by **muni** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:53 am

Having good heart as basis makes things easier.

This is not specific for Buddhism. But without for sure: "my" obscurations continue to flourish very well.
Good heart gives the divided mind less power, supports a clearer lens.
Good heart, mind purifies easier.

Nobody needs to agree.

SteRo · Post by **SteRo** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:54 pm

NateLeo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:40 am
So i want to know: what exactly is the first, most fundamental concept i need to realize first if i atleast want to reach the first stage of awakening in this life?
Thanks again!

Stream Entry is a sravaka concept. The most fundamental concepts in that context are self-identity views, attachment to rites and rituals and doubt - these have to be abandoned.

Grigoris · Post by **Grigoris** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pm

SteRo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:54 pmStream Entry is a sravaka concept.

No it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.

Caoimhghín · Post by **Caoimhghín** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:44 pm

Grigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pmNo it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.

This has been discussed with this user before: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=33746&start=20#p535388

Dialogue didn't go very far.

Grigoris · Post by **Grigoris** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:47 pm

Caoimhghín wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:44 pm
Grigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pmNo it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.
This has been discussed with this user before: viewtopic.php?f=39&t=33746&start=20#p535388

Dialogue didn't go very far.

I am not discussing it for the benefit of the particular user, as they are a classic case of "full cup" (a polite term for what I actually want to call him).

I am just correcting the information so that the other posters here are not lead astray.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:00 pm

Grigoris wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 2:37 pm
SteRo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:54 pmStream Entry is a sravaka concept.
No it is not. The first bhumi is the Mahayana equivalent of Sravakayana stream entry.

Greg is correct.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:02 pm

SteRo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 1:54 pm
NateLeo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:40 am
So i want to know: what exactly is the first, most fundamental concept i need to realize first if i atleast want to reach the first stage of awakening in this life?
Thanks again!
Stream Entry is a sravaka concept. The most fundamental concepts in that context are self-identity views, attachment to rites and rituals and doubt - these have to be abandoned.

The same three fetters are abandoned on the first bhumi, hence first stage bodhisattvas are Mahayana stream entrants.

Aemilius · Post by **Aemilius** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:19 pm

NateLeo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 03, 2020 5:40 am Evening again,

Since i recently got started in Buddhism, i been reading alot lately, but i just got the sudden need to slow down.
I have a bad habit of jumping into things and trying to absorb so many of the advanced concepts first, and i need to stop that.

That being said, i feel like I've overloaded myself with so many concepts and i realize i need to just keep it simple with a set foundation.

So i want to know: what exactly is the first, most fundamental concept i need to realize first if i atleast want to reach the first stage of awakening in this life?
Thanks again!

In entering the stream therein is found no dharma or concept of "entering the stream".

SteRo · Post by **SteRo** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:02 pm

Aemilius wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:19 pm ...
In entering the stream therein is found no dharma or concept of "entering the stream".

it´s like jumping from one patch of space in space to next patch of space in space. Nothing is entered. nothing left behind, so only sravakas enter from one illusion into another.

Malcolm · Post by **Malcolm** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:23 pm

SteRo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 4:02 pm
Aemilius wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:19 pm ...
In entering the stream therein is found no dharma or concept of "entering the stream".
it´s like jumping from one patch of space in space to next patch of space in space. Nothing is entered. nothing left behind, so only sravakas enter from one illusion into another.

Facile, at best. The old "It's all emptiness dude" retort.

Post by **Johnny Dangerous** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:33 pm

White Sakura wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:28 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:25 am
As far as Dzogchen goes, read everything you can by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche. Los of his teachings are still available and they are gold, they are utterly unlike anything else in my (biased) opinion, and we are lucky to still have his words accessible.

I agree with Grigoris: The user, who asked, needs to take refuge and therefore meet an incarnate Lama. Then he can read his books and teaching notes, that sangha members will give him.
I mean, if this is possible. Maybe it is very difficult at the moment...

People are free to approach things however they want to.

White Sakura · Post by **White Sakura** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:44 pm

NateLeo wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 3:45 am
Hey, im in the US on the east coast. the Tibetan/Dzogchen teachings tend to resonate with me the most, so if you know any teachers along those lines in America, i'll gladly contact.

My thing is i prefer personal recommendations. Ive heard bad things about a few teachers who abused students, so i'd much rather get a recommendation from a site like this with people (like you) who know their shit and have good character.

That is what the new user asked for. And I cannot answer since I live in Germany.

Grigoris · Post by **Grigoris** » Sat Jul 04, 2020 5:44 pm

: dude.png (251.81 KiB) Viewed 1868 times

Dharma Wheel

Whats the most important concept to start with to atleast get Stream Entry?

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