why? when he thaught gesar?heart wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:04 pmWell, then you just invalidated your own masters teachings.
/magnus
anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
why? when he thaught gesar?heart wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:04 pmWell, then you just invalidated your own masters teachings.
/magnus
Longsal isn't "sa-ter", so it fails your criteria. ChNNR taught many many years, he might have taught Gesar. Anyway, according to Malcolm, he practiced Gesar.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:26 pmwhy? when he thaught gesar?
anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.heart wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:47 pmLongsal isn't "sa-ter", so it fails your criteria. ChNNR taught many many years, he might have taught Gesar. Anyway, according to Malcolm, he practiced Gesar.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:26 pmwhy? when he thaught gesar?
anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
/magnus
You equated Gesar with Santa, a fictional fantasy character, and said it is not Buddhadharma (there are innumerable tertöns and other teachers who would disagree with you, like Mipham Rinpoche, Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö, including ChNN, and others.) Then you talked about validity of termas, somehow trying to make the case that sa-ter is valid, and gong-ter is not valid. You have samaya with ChNN, do you not? So how comfortable are you with claiming that not only is ChNN himself confused about Gesar, but apparently his teachings are invalid as well? That's the consequence of your arguments. Moreover, ChNN practiced Gesar. Malcolm knows this because he talked to ChNN in private about this.
I'm sure you know better than the masters of your own lineage.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:42 pm longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.
Then this:The early Rimé lama Do Khyentse Yeshe Dorje (1800–1866) used the Gesar epic as a vehicle for Dzogchen teachings, while tertöns Chogyur Lingpa (1829–1870) and Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo (1820–1892) began the revelation of ritual texts in which Gesar was a fully fledged tantric deity (yidam). A slightly later Rimé lama, Ju Mipham Gyatso (1846–1912), was particularly associated with this transformation of Gesar into a central expression of Nyingma and Dzogchen Buddhism.... Other significant lamas among the Tibetan diaspora with close links to Gesar include Kalu Rinpoche (1905–1989) and Khamtrul Rinpoche Dongyud Nyima (1931– 1980), both of whom wrote episodes of the epic, and Namkha Drimed Rinpoche (born 1939), who revealed an extensive terma-cycle based on Gesar.
It is hard to say with certainty when Tibetan Gesar ritual texts started to emerge. The earliest texts appear to date from the 17th century. However, the main body of Gesar ritual texts date from the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, and continue to be composed today. The form in which Gesar is often ritually propitiated is Gesar Dorje Tsegyal, “the Vajra Lord of Life.” The earliest attested use of this “tantric” title for Gesar is in the early 18th-century visionary text of the fifth Lelung Rinpoche mentioned earlier. A two-volume compendium of ritual texts devoted to Ling Gesar dating from the 18th and 19th centuries was published in India in 1971 by the eighth Khamtrül Rinpoche as the Ling Gesar Drupkor (Gling ge sar sgrub skor). The earliest texts in this collection are visionary texts attributed to Lharik Dechen Yeshe Rölpatsel (Lha rigs bde chen ye shes rol pa rtsal), a Dzogchen practitioner about whom little is known, though he appears to have lived in the 18th–19th centuries. Other authors of texts in this collection include many of the most famous eastern Tibetan lamas associated with the late 19th-century rimé (nonsectarian) revival: the fifth Khamtrül Drupgyü Nyima (Khams sprul lnga pa Sgrub brgyud nyi ma; 1781–1847), Do Khyentse Yeshe Dorje (Rdo mkhyen brtse ye shes rdo rje; 1800–1859), Jamgön Kongtrül Lodrö Thaye (’Jam mgon kong sprul blo gros mtha’ yas; 1813–1899), Nyagla Pema Dündul (Nyag bla Padma bdud ’dul; 1816–1872), Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo (’Jam dbyang mkhyen brtse dbang po; 1820–1892), Chogyur Lingpa (Mchog gyur gling pa; 1829–1870). But by far the most prominent author in this collection is Ju Mipham Namgyel Gyatso (’Ju mi pham rnam rgyal rgya mtsho; 1846–1912), who authored no fewer than forty-five Gesar ritual texts.... In recent decades, the Buddhist cult of Gesar has been continued and further developed by a variety of Tibetan lamas, many of whom come from the “Gesar country” around the Dri, Ma, and Dza Rivers of northern Kham and Golok. Prominent among them in the global dissemination of Tibetan Buddhism since the 1950s have been Chogyam Trungpa, Tarthang Tulku, and Namkha Drimed (who practices Gesar divination). Most influential in the contemporary eastern Tibetan development of the cult has been Khenpo Jikmé Phuntsok, and many others since then.
Gesar won't work for you, that's for sure.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:42 pm
longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.
You have no idea what you are talking about Javier, I don't know why you insist you do.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:42 pmlongsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.heart wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:47 pmLongsal isn't "sa-ter", so it fails your criteria. ChNNR taught many many years, he might have taught Gesar. Anyway, according to Malcolm, he practiced Gesar.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:26 pm
why? when he thaught gesar?
anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
/magnus
we have 0 guaranty that he practiced because he was testing or not. as you know a terton must make sure that his thing is authentic and the it takes decades to validate it. it is not like a magician hat, it doesn't work like that.
I respect ChNN as a genuine master and transmitter of the dharma, but it's absolutely ridiculous to dismiss a practice simply because he didn't speak about it publicly. That sort of fanaticism is nonsensical and something I doubt your guru would have encouraged.javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:30 pm my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.
maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.
i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.
So you claim that because Chnn didn't taught you or in public a teaching, it is not usefull or doesnt work even tho you have been told that not only he himself practiced it but also vidyadharas like: khamtrul rimpoche, dzongsar khyentse, namkha trime, ju mipham, jamgyan khyentse, trungpa, chogyur lingpa and so on taught and practiced it?javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:30 pm my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.
maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.
i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.
Was a very good and informative talk.amanitamusc wrote: ↑Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:08 am I don't know if this has been posted but it is worth posting again.May all beings benefit .
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh312.html
This podcast is very interesting and helpful in these times of pandemic.
Provocations & the Pandemic
With Menpa Malcom Smith and Menpa Phuntsog Wangmo
What were you saying about Gesar and CHNN?javier.espinoza.t wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:30 pm my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.
maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.
i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.