Practices for epidemics and pandemics

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jet.urgyen
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by jet.urgyen »

heart wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:04 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:49 am
heart wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:58 am

That is fine, be sceptical, but you have no point to make with your "sa-ter" question.

/magnus
is just my criteria.
Well, then you just invalidated your own masters teachings.

/magnus
why? when he thaught gesar?

anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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heart
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by heart »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:26 pm
heart wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:04 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:49 am

is just my criteria.
Well, then you just invalidated your own masters teachings.

/magnus
why? when he thaught gesar?

anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
Longsal isn't "sa-ter", so it fails your criteria. ChNNR taught many many years, he might have taught Gesar. Anyway, according to Malcolm, he practiced Gesar.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
jet.urgyen
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by jet.urgyen »

heart wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:47 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:26 pm
heart wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:04 pm

Well, then you just invalidated your own masters teachings.

/magnus
why? when he thaught gesar?

anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
Longsal isn't "sa-ter", so it fails your criteria. ChNNR taught many many years, he might have taught Gesar. Anyway, according to Malcolm, he practiced Gesar.

/magnus
longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.

we have 0 guaranty that he practiced because he was testing or not. as you know a terton must make sure that his thing is authentic and the it takes decades to validate it. it is not like a magician hat, it doesn't work like that.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
jet.urgyen
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by jet.urgyen »

ok, this went totally out of context. i'm out.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Norwegian
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Norwegian »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 3:02 pm ok, this went totally out of context. i'm out.
You equated Gesar with Santa, a fictional fantasy character, and said it is not Buddhadharma (there are innumerable tertöns and other teachers who would disagree with you, like Mipham Rinpoche, Jamyang Khyentse Chökyi Lodrö, including ChNN, and others.) Then you talked about validity of termas, somehow trying to make the case that sa-ter is valid, and gong-ter is not valid. You have samaya with ChNN, do you not? So how comfortable are you with claiming that not only is ChNN himself confused about Gesar, but apparently his teachings are invalid as well? That's the consequence of your arguments. Moreover, ChNN practiced Gesar. Malcolm knows this because he talked to ChNN in private about this.

And now you say that Gesar practice doesn't work? Who are you to say these things?

This is not a matter of disagreement. You don't get to say "Let's agree to disagree" here. This is a matter of you being completely wrong and having no clue.
Varis
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Varis »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:42 pm longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.
I'm sure you know better than the masters of your own lineage.
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

Btw, if anybody wanted a 20-minute long introduction to the subject:

First this (Geoffrey Samuel is one of ChNN's students, btw):
https://www.lionsroar.com/from-folk-hero-to-deity/

A relevant bit:
The early Rimé lama Do Khyentse Yeshe Dorje (1800–1866) used the Gesar epic as a vehicle for Dzogchen teach­ings, while tertöns Chogyur Lingpa (1829–1870) and Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo (1820–1892) began the rev­elation of ritual texts in which Gesar was a fully fledged tantric deity (yidam). A slightly later Rimé lama, Ju Mipham Gyatso (1846–1912), was particularly associated with this transformation of Gesar into a central expression of Nyingma and Dzogchen Buddhism.... Other sig­nificant lamas among the Tibetan dias­pora with close links to Gesar include Kalu Rinpoche (1905–1989) and Kham­trul Rinpoche Dongyud Nyima (1931– 1980), both of whom wrote episodes of the epic, and Namkha Drimed Rinpoche (born 1939), who revealed an extensive terma-cycle based on Gesar.
Then this:
https://oxfordre.com/religion/view/10.1 ... m_0-0Iqa-I

Another relevant fragment:
It is hard to say with certainty when Tibetan Gesar ritual texts started to emerge. The earliest texts appear to date from the 17th century. However, the main body of Gesar ritual texts date from the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries, and continue to be composed today. The form in which Gesar is often ritually propitiated is Gesar Dorje Tsegyal, “the Vajra Lord of Life.” The earliest attested use of this “tantric” title for Gesar is in the early 18th-century visionary text of the fifth Lelung Rinpoche mentioned earlier. A two-volume compendium of ritual texts devoted to Ling Gesar dating from the 18th and 19th centuries was published in India in 1971 by the eighth Khamtrül Rinpoche as the Ling Gesar Drupkor (Gling ge sar sgrub skor). The earliest texts in this collection are visionary texts attributed to Lharik Dechen Yeshe Rölpatsel (Lha rigs bde chen ye shes rol pa rtsal), a Dzogchen practitioner about whom little is known, though he appears to have lived in the 18th–19th centuries. Other authors of texts in this collection include many of the most famous eastern Tibetan lamas associated with the late 19th-century rimé (nonsectarian) revival: the fifth Khamtrül Drupgyü Nyima (Khams sprul lnga pa Sgrub brgyud nyi ma; 1781–1847), Do Khyentse Yeshe Dorje (Rdo mkhyen brtse ye shes rdo rje; 1800–1859), Jamgön Kongtrül Lodrö Thaye (’Jam mgon kong sprul blo gros mtha’ yas; 1813–1899), Nyagla Pema Dündul (Nyag bla Padma bdud ’dul; 1816–1872), Jamyang Khyentse Wangpo (’Jam dbyang mkhyen brtse dbang po; 1820–1892), Chogyur Lingpa (Mchog gyur gling pa; 1829–1870). But by far the most prominent author in this collection is Ju Mipham Namgyel Gyatso (’Ju mi pham rnam rgyal rgya mtsho; 1846–1912), who authored no fewer than forty-five Gesar ritual texts.... In recent decades, the Buddhist cult of Gesar has been continued and further developed by a variety of Tibetan lamas, many of whom come from the “Gesar country” around the Dri, Ma, and Dza Rivers of northern Kham and Golok. Prominent among them in the global dissemination of Tibetan Buddhism since the 1950s have been Chogyam Trungpa, Tarthang Tulku, and Namkha Drimed (who practices Gesar divination). Most influential in the contemporary eastern Tibetan development of the cult has been Khenpo Jikmé Phuntsok, and many others since then.
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Malcolm
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Malcolm »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:42 pm
longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.
Gesar won't work for you, that's for sure.
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heart
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by heart »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:42 pm
heart wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:47 pm
javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 12:26 pm

why? when he thaught gesar?

anyway, there is no need to agree on this.
Longsal isn't "sa-ter", so it fails your criteria. ChNNR taught many many years, he might have taught Gesar. Anyway, according to Malcolm, he practiced Gesar.

/magnus
longsal works. gesar doesn't. that's the point in case you haven't noticed.

we have 0 guaranty that he practiced because he was testing or not. as you know a terton must make sure that his thing is authentic and the it takes decades to validate it. it is not like a magician hat, it doesn't work like that.
You have no idea what you are talking about Javier, I don't know why you insist you do.


/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
pemachophel
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by pemachophel »

:good:
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Ayu
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Ayu »

The discussion seemed to run out of track at last. I removed only very view posts.
Please, :focus:
jet.urgyen
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by jet.urgyen »

my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.

maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.

i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Varis
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Varis »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:30 pm my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.

maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.

i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.
I respect ChNN as a genuine master and transmitter of the dharma, but it's absolutely ridiculous to dismiss a practice simply because he didn't speak about it publicly. That sort of fanaticism is nonsensical and something I doubt your guru would have encouraged.
"I have never encountered a person who committed bad deeds." ― Ven. Jìngkōng
Soma999
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Soma999 »

Javier, you can read a little about Gesar, and you may find there a treasure. He will connects you with the « spiritual warrior » spirit in you conquering the legions of demons of hatred, desire... and establishing the kingdom of the dharma in you.

On the highest road, we need all the help possible.

It is not a question of believing. It is a matter of experience. If you « keep the door open », you may have good surprise and if not today, tomorrow.
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Ayu
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Ayu »

Is it not acceptable that different teachers emphasize on different dieties?
I see no reason to argue about that at all. :shrug:
Tata1
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Tata1 »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:30 pm my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.

maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.

i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.
So you claim that because Chnn didn't taught you or in public a teaching, it is not usefull or doesnt work even tho you have been told that not only he himself practiced it but also vidyadharas like: khamtrul rimpoche, dzongsar khyentse, namkha trime, ju mipham, jamgyan khyentse, trungpa, chogyur lingpa and so on taught and practiced it?

Come on bro not even Chnn closest diciples would say something like that. There is nothing wrong to accept that you where confused on this subject
amanitamusc
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by amanitamusc »

I don't know if this has been posted but it is worth posting again.May all beings benefit .
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh312.html

This podcast is very interesting and helpful in these times of pandemic.
Provocations & the Pandemic
With Menpa Malcom Smith and Menpa Phuntsog Wangmo

Soma999
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Soma999 »

A very beautiful sutra. And designed to clear epidemics. Thank you.
Norwegian
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Norwegian »

amanitamusc wrote: Mon Nov 30, 2020 7:08 am I don't know if this has been posted but it is worth posting again.May all beings benefit .
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh312.html

This podcast is very interesting and helpful in these times of pandemic.
Provocations & the Pandemic
With Menpa Malcom Smith and Menpa Phuntsog Wangmo

Was a very good and informative talk.
Malcolm
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Re: Practices for epidemics and pandemics

Post by Malcolm »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:30 pm my root guru told me everything one would need about guardians, but never ever mentioned gesar.

maybe my teacher chnn practiced it, but it wasn't that useful or didn't matter or worked after all. otherwise it would be "there", somewhere at least.

i apreciate your messages guys. i take my leave.
What were you saying about Gesar and CHNN?

https://www.dzamlinggar.net/en/support/ ... ation-cord

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