The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

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littlelight
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The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by littlelight »

Does anyone know what sutra, and where specifically in the sutra speaks about the prophecy of the maitreya buddha?

The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha is a prediction made by the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, about the future of Buddhism and the arrival of a new Buddha named Maitreya. According to the prophecy, Maitreya will be a future Buddha who will appear after the current cycle of existence (samsara) has come to an end.

Specifically, a possible time of birth and place. Thanks in advance!
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by DNS »

According to Theravada and I believe it's the same in most Mahayana traditions too is that he will be reborn in India approximately 5,000 years after the Buddha-Gautama's pari-nirvana, which would be roughly 2,400 years from now.

In Theravada he's mentioned in Digha Nikaya and Buddhavamsa. In Mahayana I think it's mentioned in the Lotus Sutra.
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Kai lord »

littlelight wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:33 pm Does anyone know what sutra, and where specifically in the sutra speaks about the prophecy of the maitreya buddha?

The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha is a prediction made by the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, about the future of Buddhism and the arrival of a new Buddha named Maitreya. According to the prophecy, Maitreya will be a future Buddha who will appear after the current cycle of existence (samsara) has come to an end.

Specifically, a possible time of birth and place. Thanks in advance!
See this sutra:

佛說彌勒大成佛經 Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of Maitreya Bodhisattva’s Attainment of Buddhahood

If you are talking about Matireya's Buddhahood, He will reborn and attain Buiddhahood at a time where human lifespan have already increased and reached the peak lifespan of around 80,000 years and is just began to decline again according to Mahayana tradition.

Since the First to Fourth Buddha of our current eon, were all born inside the region of modern day Nepal, It can be deduced that the Fifth Buddha, Maitreya, will take birth around that region as well.

Also, the human lifespan is on the decline right now, and it will continue to do so until it reaches the bottom and shortest lifespan of approximately average 10 years before it will restart the long gradual climb to the average lifespan of 80,000 years. So it won't be anytime soon. Probably at least hundreds of thousands of years or more from now.
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Aemilius »

Maitreya appears in three Ekottara Agama sutras (EĀ 20.6 and EĀ 42.6, EĀ 27.5), but they are not among the ones that have been translated in Dharma Pearls. https://canon.dharmapearls.net/


There is a Dirgha Agama sutra about Maitreya, and study of its contents in Asian Literature and Translation Vol. 2, No. 7 (2014):

"Maitreya and the Wheel-turning King
by Anālayo
The following offers a translation of the sixth discourse in the Chinese Dīrgha-āgama,
parallel to the twenty-sixth discourse in the Dīgha-nikāya, the Cakkavatti-(sīhanāda-)sutta,
and the seventieth discourse in the Madhyama-āgama, the Discourse on the Wheel-
turning King. After translating the Dīrgha-āgama version, I study its prediction of the
future advent of the Buddha Maitreya"

complete text https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... itreya.pdf
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"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Kai lord »

Here's the Theravada's account of Maitreya Buddha's birth and life activities:

The Arising of the Buddha Metteyya
Among the people who live for 80,000 years, there will be just three afflictions: greed, starvation, and old age. In the legendary past, too, only these three afflictions prevailed (Snp 2.7:29.1). India will be successful and prosperous. The villages, towns, and capital cities will be no more than a chicken’s flight apart. And the land will be so full of people you’d think they were squashed together, like a thicket of rushes or reeds. The royal capital will be Varanasi, renamed Ketumatī. And it will be successful, prosperous, populous, full of people, with plenty of food. Ketumatī means “adorned with flags”. There will be 84,000 cities in India, with the royal capital of Ketumatī foremost.

And in the royal capital of Ketumatī a king named Saṅkha will arise, a wheel-turning monarch, a just and principled king. His dominion will extend to all four sides, he will achieve stability in the country, and possess the seven treasures. Saṅkha is “conch shell”. He will have the following seven treasures: the wheel, the elephant, the horse, the jewel, the woman, the treasurer, and the counselor as the seventh treasure. He will have over a thousand sons who are valiant and heroic, crushing the armies of his enemies. After conquering this land girt by sea, he will reign by principle, without rod or sword.

And the Blessed One named Metteyya will arise in the world—perfected, a fully awakened Buddha, accomplished in knowledge and conduct, holy, knower of the world, supreme guide for those who wish to train, teacher of gods and humans, awakened, blessed—This is the only sutta appearance of the future Buddha Metteyya (Sanskrit Maitreya, meaning “one full of love”). He became a prominent figure in later Buddhism. just as I have arisen today. Throughout, the Buddha is concerned to emphasize that the future Buddha will offer no more or less than his own teaching and practice. He wanted people to practice now, not to establish a cult of a future savior. He will realize with his own insight this world—with its gods, Māras and Brahmās, this population with its ascetics and brahmins, gods and humans—and make it known to others, just as I do today. He will teach the Dhamma that’s good in the beginning, good in the middle, and good in the end, meaningful and well-phrased. And he will reveal a spiritual practice that’s entirely full and pure, just as I do today. He will lead a Saṅgha of many thousand mendicants, just as I lead a Saṅgha of many hundreds today. The maximum number of monastics cited in the suttas is 1250 at a single gathering.

Then King Saṅkha will have the sacrificial post once built by King Mahāpanāda raised up. This event is found in Bhaddaji’s verses at Thag 2.22, expanded to a full story at Ja 264. The commentary explains yūpa as “palace”, but Bhaddaji’s verses clearly depict a sacrificial post, to which the animal would be tied for slaughter. Such posts are connected with the horse sacrifice, which establishes imperial power. This is but one aspect of the wheel-turning monarch to draw on imagery from the horse sacrifice. Here, of course, no horses are killed. Having reigned, he will abdicate, offering charity to ascetics and brahmins, paupers, vagrants, nomads, and beggars. Then, having shaved off his hair and beard and dressed in ocher robes, he will go forth from the lay life to homelessness in the Buddha Metteyya’s presence. Ajjhāvasati in this sutta means “reign” not “dwell” (DN 26:2.5). Soon after going forth, living withdrawn, diligent, keen, and resolute, he will realize the supreme end of the spiritual path in this very life. He will live having achieved with his own insight the goal for which gentlemen rightly go forth from the lay life to homelessness.

Mendicants, live as your own island, your own refuge, with no other refuge. Let the teaching be your island and your refuge, with no other refuge. And how does a mendicant do this? It’s when a mendicant meditates by observing an aspect of the body—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world. They meditate observing an aspect of feelings … mind … principles—keen, aware, and mindful, rid of covetousness and displeasure for the world. That’s how a mendicant lives as their own island, their own refuge, with no other refuge. That’s how they let the teaching be their island and their refuge, with no other refuge.
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Aemilius »

Kai lord wrote: Sat Jun 15, 2024 7:42 am
littlelight wrote: Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:33 pm Does anyone know what sutra, and where specifically in the sutra speaks about the prophecy of the maitreya buddha?

The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha is a prediction made by the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama, about the future of Buddhism and the arrival of a new Buddha named Maitreya. According to the prophecy, Maitreya will be a future Buddha who will appear after the current cycle of existence (samsara) has come to an end.

Specifically, a possible time of birth and place. Thanks in advance!
See this sutra:

佛說彌勒大成佛經 Buddha Pronounces the Sūtra of Maitreya Bodhisattva’s Attainment of Buddhahood

If you are talking about Matireya's Buddhahood, He will reborn and attain Buiddhahood at a time where human lifespan have already increased and reached the peak lifespan of around 80,000 years and is just began to decline again according to Mahayana tradition.

Since the First to Fourth Buddha of our current eon, were all born inside the region of modern day Nepal, It can be deduced that the Fifth Buddha, Maitreya, will take birth around that region as well.
The eras of the four buddhas and the fifth buddha will take place during thousands of millions of years, or during thousands of billions years. The correct Dharma of the earlier buddhas of the present kalpa lasted for very long periods of time. Much longer than the Correct Dharma of Shakyamuni Buddha.

After the first period of the Correct Dharma comes the period False Dharma, or Anti-dharma. This period lasts usually twice as long (as the Correct Dharma), this is said in the White Lotus sutra. In the Nikayas Buddha Gautama says that the Correct Dharma will be destroyed by the False Dharma, and that it will not be destroyed before the arising of tie False Dharma.

All surface landmass of Nepal will be washed into the sea by the forces of erosion. The whole of the Himalayan mountains will be gradually washed into the sea, during the next 10 million or one hundred million years. They will form sediment layers at the sea bottom. Some day these sediment layers will likely be on dry ground again. And so on.. There were no Himalayan mountains in the distant past and they will be gone in the distant future.


Image

"Steeply dipping sedimentary rock strata along the Chalous Road in northern Iran." Can you imagine that these sediment layers once formed at the sea bottom?
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Kai lord »

Aemilius wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2024 11:13 am
All surface landmass of Nepal will be washed into the sea by the forces of erosion. The whole of the Himalayan mountains will be gradually washed into the sea, during the next 10 million or one hundred million years. They will form sediment layers at the sea bottom. Some day these sediment layers will likely be on dry ground again. And so on.. There were no Himalayan mountains in the distant past and they will be gone in the distant future.
That is just pure speculation. Geologic record is full of unexpected and largely undetectable shifts in tectonic activity driven by currents within the Earth's mantle that is not fully understood, making projections into millions of years highly unreliable.

As a geologist famously admitted publicly:
“We don’t really know the future, obviously, All we can do is make predictions of how plate motions will continue, what new things might happen, and where it will all end up.”
However if you insist on speculating, there is currently a prevailing theory called the Pangaea Proxima hypothesis that is acknowledged by hundreds of geologist using current prevailing geologic knowledge and animated simulations by super computers to project future tectonic shifts. Here's the details :
In the next 50 million years (assuming no new subduction zones come into being before then), North America is predicted to shift west and Eurasia east, and possibly even to the south, bringing Great Britain closer to the North Pole and Siberia southward towards warm, subtropical latitudes. Africa is predicted to collide with Europe and Arabia, closing the Mediterranean Sea (thus completely closing the Tethys Ocean (or Neotethys)) and the Red Sea between Sudan and Saudi Arabia. A long mountain range (the Mediterranean Mountain Range) would then extend from Iberia, across Southern Europe and into Asia. Some are even predicted to have peaks higher than Mount Everest between Spain, Greece, Italy, and Egypt. Similarly, Australia is predicted to beach itself past the doorstep of Southeast Asia, causing islands such as the Philippines and Indonesia to be compressed inland, forming another potential mountain range while Japan will collide with China, Korea, and Russia. Meanwhile, Southern and Baja California are predicted to have already collided with Alaska with new mountain ranges formed between the United States and Canada.

About 125 million years from now, the Atlantic Ocean is predicted to stop widening and begin to shrink as the Mid-Atlantic Ridge seafloor spreading gives way to subduction. In this scenario, the mid-ocean ridge between South America and Africa will probably be subducted first; the Atlantic Ocean is predicted to narrow as a result of subduction beneath the Americas. The Indian Ocean is also predicted to be smaller due to northward subduction of oceanic crust into the Central Indian trench. Antarctica is expected to split in two and shift northwards, colliding with Madagascar and Australia, enclosing a remnant of the Indian Ocean, which Scotese calls the "Medi-Pangaean Sea".

When the last of the Mid-Atlantic Ridge is subducted beneath the Americas, the Atlantic Ocean is predicted to close rapidly. Research by Duarte et al in 2024 is consistent with this, noting that the Gibraltar Arc may evolve into a subduction zone entering the Atlantic Ocean and forming an Atlantic analogue to the current Ring of Fire, leading to the closure of the Atlantic Ocean.

At 250 million years in the future, the Atlantic is predicted to have closed, with only small vestiges of the former ocean remaining. North America will have collided with Africa, but be in a more southerly position than where it rifted away. South America is predicted to be wrapped around the southern tip of Africa and Antarctica, completely enclosing the Medi-Pangaean Sea, which will become a supertoxic inland sea that begins to poison the surrounding oceans, lands and atmosphere, leading to another great extinction event.The supercontinent will be encircled by a global ocean, the Neopanthalassan Ocean (meaning "new" Panthalassan Ocean), which encircles half the Earth.[9] The Earth is expected to have a hothouse climate with an average global temperature of 28 °C (82 °F). The only areas likely to be suitable for known life are those closest to the poles (modern-day Western Europe). in countries like France and Germany where life will survive in the poles. The equator will become too hot to support life in places like India and Mexico
The map:

Image

The animation:



As you can see, there are more large mountain ranges being formed within the next 50 millions years, not less and south Asia together with Himalaya is left relatively intact for the next 250 millions of years. Furthermore 250 millions of years from now, most land masses on Earth will become too hot for humans to live in which exactly sounds like another Dharma ending age. So Maitreya's last rebirth and eventual Buddhahood shall have taken place long ago before that occurs.
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Aemilius »

Unfortunately, the forces of erosion exist and they are working incessantly. The rivers Brahmaputra, Yamuna, Ganges, Meghna, etc. are constantly carrying sediments to the Bay of Bengal. There are exact calculations about the load of stuff that rivers carry to the sea in one second. There are any seconds in one million years.
Forces of erosion are not speculation, they are a measured and well estimated phenomenon. The question is not about the platetectonics. This is a different phenomenon.
New mountains are being formed simultaneously as the old ones are worn away. But human life is too short that we would be able to notice it.


"A river's load refers to the total quantity of sediment it transports. This can include a variety of materials such as sand, silt, clay, pebbles, and even larger boulders. The type and size of the sediment a river can carry are largely determined by its velocity and the volume of water it contains.

Sediment Load

The majority of a stream's sediment load is carried in solution (dissolved load) or in suspension. The remainder is called the bed load.

Dissolved load. Earth material that has been dissolved into ions and carried in solution is the dissolved load. It is usually contributed by groundwater. Common ions are calcium, bicarbonate, potassium, sulfate, and chloride. These ions may react to form new minerals if the proper chemical conditions are encountered during flow. Minerals may also precipitate in trapped pools through evaporation.

Suspended load. The suspended load is the fine‐grained sediment that remains in the water during transportation. For example, a flooding river is muddy and discolored from the large amounts of sediment suspended in the water. The suspended load is generally made up of lighter‐weight, finer‐grained particles such as silt and clay. Most of the sediment in a stream is carried as suspended load. It does not contribute greatly to stream erosion, since it is not in frictional contact with the stream bed.

Bed load. The heavier, coarser‐grained earth material that travels along the bottom of the stream is the bed load. Traction occurs when these fragments move along by rolling and sliding. Turbulent or eddying currents can temporarily lift these larger grains into the overlying flow of water—the grains advance by short jumps or skips until the surge diminishes and then fall back to the bottom because of their greater weight. This process is called saltation.

Capacity and competence. The maximum load of sediment that a stream can transport is called its capacity. Capacity is directly proportional to the discharge: the greater the amount of water flowing in the stream, the greater the amount of sediment it can carry. A stream's competence is a measure of the largest‐sized particle it can transport; competence is directly proportional to a stream's velocity, which can vary seasonally. Because of increased capacity and competence, a single flood event can cause more erosion than a hundred years of standard flow."

Sediment Load https://www.cliffsnotes.com/study-guide ... iment-load


History of Himalayan erosion and weathering from the Bengal Fan

"With Christian France-Lanord of the CRPG, Nancy France, we have studied sediments of the Bengal Fan in the eastern Indian Ocean. The Bengal Fan is an enormous silt-dominated turbidite system, and since at least 20 Ma, its sediments have been primarily derived from the crystalline core of the Himalaya. We have used Nd, Sr and O isotopes to trace the provenance of Bengal Fan sediment, and XRD of clay minerals, major element chemistry, and H, C, O and Sr isotopes to trace their weathering history. The samples we have studied come primarily from Ocean Drilling Program holes, as well as shallow piston cores."

http://www.geo.cornell.edu/geology/rese ... alaya.html
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Kai lord »

Aemilius wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:34 am Unfortunately, the forces of erosion exist and they are working incessantly. The rivers Brahmaputra, Yamuna, Ganges, Meghna, etc. are constantly carrying sediments to the Bay of Bengal. There are exact calculations about the load of stuff that rivers carry to the sea in one second. There are any seconds in one million years.
Forces of erosion are not speculation, they are a measured and well estimated phenomenon. The question is not about the platetectonics. This is a different phenomenon.
New mountains are being formed simultaneously as the old ones are worn away. But human life is too short that we would be able to notice it.
Erosion is not speculation but stating how erosion will lead to the total collapse of the entire himalayas tens or hundreds of millions of years from now is pure speculation
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Aemilius wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:34 am Unfortunately, the forces of erosion exist and they are working incessantly. The rivers Brahmaputra, Yamuna, Ganges, Meghna, etc. are constantly carrying sediments to the Bay of Bengal. There are exact calculations about the load of stuff that rivers carry to the sea in one second. There are any seconds in one million years.
Well if erosion is the prophecy then don’t worry. The source of those waterways is the Himalayas and the big fear now is that as the snow there recedes due to climate change, the water will stop flowing and these rivers will dry up or become little streams at least.
No water, no erosion.
I guess Maitreya will just have to wait a little longer.
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

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Kai lord wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:43 pm
Aemilius wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 9:34 am Unfortunately, the forces of erosion exist and they are working incessantly. The rivers Brahmaputra, Yamuna, Ganges, Meghna, etc. are constantly carrying sediments to the Bay of Bengal. There are exact calculations about the load of stuff that rivers carry to the sea in one second. There are any seconds in one million years.
Forces of erosion are not speculation, they are a measured and well estimated phenomenon. The question is not about the platetectonics. This is a different phenomenon.
New mountains are being formed simultaneously as the old ones are worn away. But human life is too short that we would be able to notice it.
Erosion is not speculation but stating how erosion will lead to the total collapse of the entire himalayas tens or hundreds of millions of years from now is pure speculation
I also didn't at first believe that what they say in the geology books is really true, nor did I really undertand it. But I kept reading, and gradually the vast system of geology dawned on me. It started to make sense and I became a "believer" in it.

I have listened to and watched over one hundred lectures on various aspects of geology. This all said, I can't really expect that people would through just one lecture understand and believe the knowledge gained in Geology. Anyway, below is a basic lecture about the formation of sedimentary rocks. It is part of a multipart series called Earth Explorations, and it is given by C. V. Shorey, teaching professor at Colorado School of Mines.

Geologists say that in prehistoric times on Earth there have been mountains that were from 15km to 20 km high, but they have all eroded away. What is left of these ancient mountains is the quarzite sand, that we have lots of, all over the this planet. --This again is rather simplified, and not all of it, at all.

svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

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Aemilius wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:20 am
Kai lord wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2024 12:43 pm Erosion is not speculation but stating how erosion will lead to the total collapse of the entire himalayas tens or hundreds of millions of years from now is pure speculation
I also didn't at first believe that what they say in the geology books is really true, nor did I really undertand it.
Predicting of anything even one million years from now is speculation. You can demonstrate how the earth will change. You can’t say for sure that’s what will happen or more importantly that humans will even be here, and if we aren’t, then it doesn’t matter about Maitreya.

One can believe or not believe such a prediction but then there’s no point to even dragging science into it, because then it’s simply a matter of belief or not in something which cannot be known. That’s where religion steps in.
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

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"Knowledge is belief based on reason", this was said in ancient Greece already. Slightly later Descartes said something similar. Thus Geology is knowledge, like weather forecasts are knowledge.


Coming back to the original question, Richard Dawkins writes in his book The Ancestor's Tale, in chapter The Tasmanian's Tale, that going backwards in time, measured in human  generations: "it doesn't take long before we hit the point in  at which everybody in that population is either a common ancestor [to all future humans] or has no surviving descendants." He also says, " In fact, about 80 per cent of individuals in any generation will in theory be ancestors of everybody alive in the distant future."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

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Generally all scientific theories make predictions. It is in their nature to do so. For example, when your throw a ball in the air with a given velocity and direction, it will fall to the ground at some distance. This is a scientific prediction
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Kai lord
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Kai lord »

Aemilius wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:20 am
I have listened to and watched over one hundred lectures on various aspects of geology. This all said, I can't really expect that people would through just one lecture understand and believe the knowledge gained in Geology. Anyway, below is a basic lecture about the formation of sedimentary rocks. It is part of a multipart series called Earth Explorations, and it is given by C. V. Shorey, teaching professor at Colorado School of Mines.

Geologists say that in prehistoric times on Earth there have been mountains that were from 15km to 20 km high, but they have all eroded away. What is left of these ancient mountains is the quarzite sand, that we have lots of, all over the this planet. --This again is rather simplified, and not all of it, at all.
So? What happened in the past does not mean the exact same thing will occur in the future and that is not taken into account, the fact that current scientific models are in constant flux of modification, fine tuning, etc. What seem to work now, might change in coming years or decades to come as new discoveries or observations emerge and many scientific debates do last very long as a result of that. This is a first thing that all science students learn.

Scientists makes countless of hypothesis and speculations about the future every now and then, does not mean any of them will ever come true. The probability of your favourite speculation above coming true is more or less equivalent to the chances of a mega sized asteroid (like one making the chicxulub impact) hitting the Himalayan region, leveling the mountainous region to dust and creating a crater large enough for an inland sea.

Neither of the two scenarios are totally improbable events but their chances of occurrences are so negligible that no credible scientists are interested to engage in serious debate about them.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Aemilius wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 12:25 pm Generally all scientific theories make predictions. It is in their nature to do so. For example, when your throw a ball in the air with a given velocity and direction, it will fall to the ground at some distance. This is a scientific prediction
Scientific predictions are only based on what can be repeatable. The prediction is based on the fact of what the ball has done before under similar conditions. As I said, the erosion theory is one possible prediction based on the fact of erosion as we know it, but that doesn’t mean that something else, such as climate change, wouldn’t then change the conditions on which that prediction is based and this change the outcome.

Referring to your analogy, the scientists prediction doesn’t take account an Unexpected strong wind would alter the course of the ball.

Please drop stop trying to use science to validate religious beliefs. It doesn’t work.
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Aemilius
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Aemilius »

Kai lord wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:13 pm
Aemilius wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:20 am
I have listened to and watched over one hundred lectures on various aspects of geology. This all said, I can't really expect that people would through just one lecture understand and believe the knowledge gained in Geology. Anyway, below is a basic lecture about the formation of sedimentary rocks. It is part of a multipart series called Earth Explorations, and it is given by C. V. Shorey, teaching professor at Colorado School of Mines.

Geologists say that in prehistoric times on Earth there have been mountains that were from 15km to 20 km high, but they have all eroded away. What is left of these ancient mountains is the quarzite sand, that we have lots of, all over the this planet. --This again is rather simplified, and not all of it, at all.
So? What happened in the past does not mean the exact same thing will occur in the future and that is not taken into account, the fact that current scientific models are in constant flux of modification, fine tuning, etc. What seem to work now, might change in coming years or decades to come as new discoveries or observations emerge and many scientific debates do last very long as a result of that. This is a first thing that all science students learn.

Scientists makes countless of hypothesis and speculations about the future every now and then, does not mean any of them will ever come true. The probability of your favourite speculation above coming true is more or less equivalent to the chances of a mega sized asteroid (like one making the chicxulub impact) hitting the Himalayan region, leveling the mountainous region to dust and creating a crater large enough for an inland sea.

Neither of the two scenarios are totally improbable events but their chances of occurrences are so negligible that no credible scientists are interested to engage in serious debate about them.
I'm sorry for having to repeat the same thing over again. How old is the earth or the crust of the earth? "Age of Earth is estimated to be 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (4.54 × 10exp9 years ± 1%)"
Geologists say that all of the present the rocks and mountains contsist of much younger material, because the very old ones have all been eroded and worn away.
This is heavy piece of evidence.
We can be sure that the same thing is happening right now and very likely it is going to happen in the future. As long as there is water, wind, sunshine and vegetation on this planet, the rocks and mountains will continue to become eroded at a steady speed. Our lives are only too short that we could see it happening.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Kai lord
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Kai lord »

Aemilius wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 8:55 am
Kai lord wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:13 pm
Aemilius wrote: Fri Jun 21, 2024 10:20 am
I have listened to and watched over one hundred lectures on various aspects of geology. This all said, I can't really expect that people would through just one lecture understand and believe the knowledge gained in Geology. Anyway, below is a basic lecture about the formation of sedimentary rocks. It is part of a multipart series called Earth Explorations, and it is given by C. V. Shorey, teaching professor at Colorado School of Mines.

Geologists say that in prehistoric times on Earth there have been mountains that were from 15km to 20 km high, but they have all eroded away. What is left of these ancient mountains is the quarzite sand, that we have lots of, all over the this planet. --This again is rather simplified, and not all of it, at all.
So? What happened in the past does not mean the exact same thing will occur in the future and that is not taken into account, the fact that current scientific models are in constant flux of modification, fine tuning, etc. What seem to work now, might change in coming years or decades to come as new discoveries or observations emerge and many scientific debates do last very long as a result of that. This is a first thing that all science students learn.

Scientists makes countless of hypothesis and speculations about the future every now and then, does not mean any of them will ever come true. The probability of your favourite speculation above coming true is more or less equivalent to the chances of a mega sized asteroid (like one making the chicxulub impact) hitting the Himalayan region, leveling the mountainous region to dust and creating a crater large enough for an inland sea.

Neither of the two scenarios are totally improbable events but their chances of occurrences are so negligible that no credible scientists are interested to engage in serious debate about them.
I'm sorry for having to repeat the same thing over again. How old is the earth or the crust of the earth? "Age of Earth is estimated to be 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (4.54 × 10exp9 years ± 1%)"
Geologists say that all of the present the rocks and mountains contsist of much younger material, because the very old ones have all been eroded and worn away.
This is heavy piece of evidence.
We can be sure that the same thing is happening right now and very likely it is going to happen in the future. As long as there is water, wind, sunshine and vegetation on this planet, the rocks and mountains will continue to become eroded at a steady speed. Our lives are only too short that we could see it happening.
People can repeat the same thing over and over again but that does not make it true.

You still fail to answer the simple question of how your erosion of Himalaya theory being more probable than Himalaya getting hit by an asteroid or a series of mega earthquake and many, many other possibilities which are equally proven by historical geologic records and scientists and have the same likelihood of occurring again in the future. You are showing favoritism towards one possible theory over others for no good rationality at all. Thats precisely the attitude opposite to scientific approach. You make your conclusion first before investigating on other alternatives, validating each of them, etc .

Then again instead of wasting so much time and effort on pointless speculation why not use that great amount of energy on the contemplation of impermanence of external phenomenon using erosion as a starting point or example?

Wouldn't that be more fruitful?
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
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VolkerK
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by VolkerK »

T12A_349.
Questions Posed by Maitreya Bodhisattva About Past Vows Sutra (skt. Maitreya­paripṛcchā)
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh85.html

T14_452.
The Buddha Speaks of Contemplating Maitreya Bodhisattva's Ascend and Birth in the Tushita Heaven Sutra (chin. Kuan mi le p'u sa shang sheng tou shuai t'ien ching)
https://menadoc.bibliothek.uni-halle.de ... ew/1442736
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh199.html

T14_453.
The Buddha Speaks of the Descend and Birth of Maitreya Sutra

T14_454.
The Buddha Speaks of the Descend, Birth and Realization of Buddhahood of Maitreya Sutra/
Maitreyavyākaraṇa(sūtra)
https://www.bdkamerica.org/product/the- ... questions/
https://texts.mandala.library.virginia. ... -grove.pdf

T14_455.
The Buddha Speaks of the Descend, Birth and Realization of Buddhahood of Maitreya Sutra (skt. Maitreyavyākaraṇa(sūtra))
http://www.buddhism.org/Sutras/2/Sutras36.htm
https://www.pure-land-buddhism.com/othe ... ya-buddha-

T14_456.
The Buddha Speaks of Maitreya's Great Realization of Buddhahood Sutra (chin. Mi le ta ch'eng fo ching)
https://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra11.html
http://www.buddhamountain.ca/Maitreya_B ... hahood.php

T20_1141
Maitreya Abbreviated Yoga Liturgy (chin. Cishi Pusa Lue Xiu Yujia Niansong Fa) 慈氏菩薩略修瑜伽念誦法

T20_1142
Maitreya Bodhisattva Dharani (chin. Fo Shuo Cishi Pusa Tuoluoni) 佛說慈氏菩薩陀羅尼

T20_1143.
The Buddha Speaks of the Dharani of Kind Clan Bodhisattva's Vows (skt. Maitreyapratijñādhāraṇī Sūtra, (chin. Fo Shuo Cishi Pusa Shiyuan Tuoluoni Jing) 佛說慈氏菩薩誓願陀羅尼經

T20_1144
The Buddha Speaks of the Verses for Maitreya Bodhisattva's King of Vows Made, (skt. Maitreyapratijñādhāraṇī Sūtra), (chin. Fo Shuo Mile Pusa Fa Yuan Wang Ji) 佛說彌勒菩薩發願王偈



Maitreya’s Setting Out )skt Maitreya­prasthāna)
https://read.84000.co/translation/toh198.html
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Aemilius
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Re: The Prophecy of the Maitreya Buddha

Post by Aemilius »

Kai lord wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 12:47 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sun Jun 23, 2024 8:55 am
Kai lord wrote: Sat Jun 22, 2024 4:13 pm

So? What happened in the past does not mean the exact same thing will occur in the future and that is not taken into account, the fact that current scientific models are in constant flux of modification, fine tuning, etc. What seem to work now, might change in coming years or decades to come as new discoveries or observations emerge and many scientific debates do last very long as a result of that. This is a first thing that all science students learn.

Scientists makes countless of hypothesis and speculations about the future every now and then, does not mean any of them will ever come true. The probability of your favourite speculation above coming true is more or less equivalent to the chances of a mega sized asteroid (like one making the chicxulub impact) hitting the Himalayan region, leveling the mountainous region to dust and creating a crater large enough for an inland sea.

Neither of the two scenarios are totally improbable events but their chances of occurrences are so negligible that no credible scientists are interested to engage in serious debate about them.
I'm sorry for having to repeat the same thing over again. How old is the earth or the crust of the earth? "Age of Earth is estimated to be 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (4.54 × 10exp9 years ± 1%)"
Geologists say that all of the present the rocks and mountains contsist of much younger material, because the very old ones have all been eroded and worn away.
This is heavy piece of evidence.
We can be sure that the same thing is happening right now and very likely it is going to happen in the future. As long as there is water, wind, sunshine and vegetation on this planet, the rocks and mountains will continue to become eroded at a steady speed. Our lives are only too short that we could see it happening.
People can repeat the same thing over and over again but that does not make it true.

You still fail to answer the simple question of how your erosion of Himalaya theory being more probable than Himalaya getting hit by an asteroid or a series of mega earthquake and many, many other possibilities which are equally proven by historical geologic records and scientists and have the same likelihood of occurring again in the future. You are showing favoritism towards one possible theory over others for no good rationality at all. Thats precisely the attitude opposite to scientific approach. You make your conclusion first before investigating on other alternatives, validating each of them, etc .

Then again instead of wasting so much time and effort on pointless speculation why not use that great amount of energy on the contemplation of impermanence of external phenomenon using erosion as a starting point or example?
Thanks. The last one is a valid point. It is one of the reasons I started studying and reading geology. In certain buddhist contemplations it is said that the outer world is impermanent, without much explanation or knowledge of what it means in practical terms. After reading and studying geology for some years, you will quite certainly get a real experience of the impermanence and change of the outer world.

To the earlier part: The simple answer is that the erosion of Himalayn mountains is an observable fact. It takes place anyway. One exercise given in geology field manuals is that you take every year a photograph of some geological feature in your surroundings, and you continue doing this for ten or twenty years or as long as you live.
If there are mountains in your area, you can take a picture of them at the same spot every year. After ten or twenty years you will see if and how they have changed.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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