Rebirth in the past

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Aemilius
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Re: Rebirth in the past

Post by Aemilius »

Continuation to the above: I do accept that there is emptiness also in the sense of non-existence. Material things, like houses, bridges, etc, can just disappear into thin air. Without a "normal" or material cause. This quite is rare, I think, but it sometimes occurs. Things can also appear from thin air or from "nothing", (or from mind, karmic tendencies or karmic merit, -if you want a buddhist explanation).
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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seeker242
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Location: South Florida, USA

Re: Rebirth in the past

Post by seeker242 »

Aemilius wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:30 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:44 am
Aemilius wrote: Fri Feb 09, 2024 9:47 am What is the use of eating food or paying your rent and paying your your debts, because they exist only conventionally?
Explain what difference “only conventionally” makes.

What’s the use of feeling hungry conventionally?
You are purposefully forgetting the original claim to which I was replying. The original post was:
seeker242 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:05 pm Yet he also refutes truly existing birth or rebirth too does he not? When speaking of 2 different things, which are existing conventionally, it makes sense to keep both in the context of conventions, seems to me anyway. :smile: If you don't, then the whole question no longer makes any sense to begin with. What use is there in asking about rebirth when there actually is no such thing to begin with? LOL :smile:
Here the seeker242 seems to make the conclusion that because rebirth is merely conventional it is nonexistent. (Which is false ofcourse). Why do you not take up the wrong conclusion of seeker242 instead?

Aftr that we can go into the question in what sense eating food and paying one's debts are "conventional phenomena".
That isn’t what I’m concluding at all. What I’m concluding is that when speaking of conventional things, then it’s entirely appropriate to speak of other conventional things, that are related to it, conventionally. The question was about is it a standard belief to believe that one can be reborn into the past as the OP heard someone say that. You mentioned Nagarjuna refuting truly existing time. Whether or not time is truly existing doesn’t matter. It’s an entirely conventional thing that’s being discussed to begin with. Time is not truly existing nor is rebirth, but the answer is still no regardless of any of that.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
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Aemilius
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Re: Rebirth in the past

Post by Aemilius »

seeker242 wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2024 2:03 pm
Aemilius wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 9:30 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:44 am
Explain what difference “only conventionally” makes.

What’s the use of feeling hungry conventionally?
You are purposefully forgetting the original claim to which I was replying. The original post was:
seeker242 wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 5:05 pm Yet he also refutes truly existing birth or rebirth too does he not? When speaking of 2 different things, which are existing conventionally, it makes sense to keep both in the context of conventions, seems to me anyway. :smile: If you don't, then the whole question no longer makes any sense to begin with. What use is there in asking about rebirth when there actually is no such thing to begin with? LOL :smile:
Here the seeker242 seems to make the conclusion that because rebirth is merely conventional it is nonexistent. (Which is false ofcourse). Why do you not take up the wrong conclusion of seeker242 instead?

Aftr that we can go into the question in what sense eating food and paying one's debts are "conventional phenomena".
That isn’t what I’m concluding at all. What I’m concluding is that when speaking of conventional things, then it’s entirely appropriate to speak of other conventional things, that are related to it, conventionally. The question was about is it a standard belief to believe that one can be reborn into the past as the OP heard someone say that. You mentioned Nagarjuna refuting truly existing time. Whether or not time is truly existing doesn’t matter. It’s an entirely conventional thing that’s being discussed to begin with. Time is not truly existing nor is rebirth, but the answer is still no regardless of any of that.
I don't think you can deny it's existence so categorically. Time and space are related, they are about the same thing, namely existence or what seems to be "out there". Time is also considered to be the fourth dimension. In a Buddhist sutra (Catuhparisad sutra) Buddha Shakyamuni jumps over vast space by taking just one step (into the direction of Videha-continent or the Kuru-continent) and he arrives there with this one step. Distance or the vastness of space is said to be empty, in the teaching of 20 Emptinesses. Similarly it should be possible to jump over (vast) distances of/in time.

The Innumerabe Meanings sutra, which is part of the Threefold Lotus Sutra, says in the section called the Fifth inconceivable merit power, thus: "They will fill with joy and convince those living beings, extending a day to a hundred kalpas, or shortening a hundred kalpas to a day."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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PadmaVonSamba
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Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 1:41 am

Re: Rebirth in the past

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

If you look at the Big Dipper constellation (Ursa Major) constellation right now, in the present, you are seeing what it looked like about a century ago.
If you lived on a planet orbiting the north star and right now you could see people on Earth, you would see us as we were (what would seem to us as the present) about 1000 years ago.

So now, you have to define
what “going back in time” means, because one being’s experience of the past is simultaneously another being’s experience of the present.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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