Politics in dharma center - article

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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

Post by SilenceMonkey »

The real intention of saying “everything is political” is to have people see the politics underlying our world.

So issues of bad logic aside, I think the real question is:

Is it really so important to analyze the political dynamics behind all of our relationships, institutions and society at large?

And is it such an important part of Dharma?
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 5:35 pm is:

Is it really so important to analyze the political dynamics behind all of our relationships, institutions and society at large?

And is it such an important part of Dharma?
No, but there are import issues of collective ethics which Buddhists should, at the very least, probably have coherent opinions on. The war on Gaza is one such example where it is ethically negligent to “not take sides”, especially for Americans whose tax dollars are funding the war effort.

This was just recently posted by DNS in the Israel/Gaza thread:
https://www.commondreams.org/opinion/ga ... TexgPZNzos

It’s of course up to individuals what they choose to do with their time, and for some people Dharma practice is the priority.

There is often a limited amount we can do about these things. If one is not a reclusive Yogi though, it is frankly avoidant and possibly even a little cowardly to not at least form coherent opinions on social issues when we live and interact in a society.

So, people who are not full time practitioners spend most of their day in meditation really have no place claiming that politics is unimportant because of their practice when they spend time on DW, fb, video games and whatever else.

There are also lots of vital, less overtly political ways to help others of course, but really “practice is more important” is a transparently absurd justification for people who do not spend most of their day in formal practice, and likely do all other kinds of time-wasting activities.

There are of course more and less skillful ways to engage in political discussion, and yeah plenty of it is unproductive.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:34 pmWell, my dissertation focuses on how all political situations ultimately an address the question, “what gives you the right to tell me what to do?” This is ultimately what all political arguments are about.
Well, woop-dee-doo. Give yourself a prize. :rolling:
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Grigoris wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:47 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:34 pmWell, my dissertation focuses on how all political situations ultimately an address the question, “what gives you the right to tell me what to do?” This is ultimately what all political arguments are about.
Well, woop-dee-doo. Give yourself a prize. :rolling:
:jumping: Okay.
But first, I will actually need to write a dissertation!
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:20 pm
Grigoris wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 6:47 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 4:34 pmWell, my dissertation focuses on how all political situations ultimately an address the question, “what gives you the right to tell me what to do?” This is ultimately what all political arguments are about.
Well, woop-dee-doo. Give yourself a prize. :rolling:
:jumping: Okay.
But first, I will actually need to write a dissertation!
I am in the throes of writing my Masters Thesis as we speak...
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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Grigoris wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 3:04 pm
Queequeg wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2024 1:53 pmNo. I'm just not buying in to this ideology to the exclusion of all else.

Progressive totalitarianism is still totalitarianism. No thank you.
So critically analysing the historical, social and political roots of our attitudes, so that our thoughts and action do not perpetuate oppression, is totalitarianism?

I thought that you did not know the meaning of the term "totalitarianism", now I am sure you not understand what it means.
It doesn't matter what I know or don't know. Apparently all I need to know is that its all politics, and if I repeat that, I'll be in the orthodoxy. Golden!
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

Post by master of puppets »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 4:33 pm
Queequeg wrote: Sun Feb 18, 2024 3:44 pm If someone needs help to change a tire on the side of the road, I will help them because I think it is the right thing to do - we ought be helpful to our fellows. There is no political calculation in my decision to pull over and help, and frankly, it would be a sad world where every decision we make had to be considered for its political implications.
:applause: :good:

That's what is written in the manuel. All for what the all buddhas and saints and so forth are for.

The earth is too much politics. full of people thinking (twice) politically even in a simple hand.

The first and most important issue for the earth is to solve this problem.

The oldest generations or ancient people are/were not like this. don't know if people change by reading and start to overview the other religions and so.

but there should be reasons. everyone is so much politic and introversion.

I myself have too many calculations still.

why do we become like this. we need to sit and ponder on this, seriously.. I watch many foreign tv channels all over the world; yet couldn't find a non political one. 😥

///hate this.

Thoughts disappear when they have no customers.

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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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Queequeg wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:10 pmIt doesn't matter what I know or don't know. Apparently all I need to know is that its all politics, and if I repeat that, I'll be in the orthodoxy. Golden!
Dude!

Critical theory is probably one of the most important academic movements around. It has nothing to do with orthodoxy. I get into arguments with people regarding its application all the time, and I support it!

Recently I got accused of sexism, by a variety of clueless gatekeepers, for just mentioning the word "porn". That is NOT how critical theory works.

I am not into "political correctness" at all.

My working-class upbringing makes it impossible to be "politically correct", nor is it something I want to emulate, but I am still a fan of critical analysis of perceived "facts".

I recommend you check out this video. The author has some other great videos too. He is a Native American, twin-spirit sociologist.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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Grigoris wrote: Fri Feb 23, 2024 7:14 pm
Queequeg wrote: Thu Feb 22, 2024 5:10 pmIt doesn't matter what I know or don't know. Apparently all I need to know is that its all politics, and if I repeat that, I'll be in the orthodoxy. Golden!
Dude!

Critical theory is probably one of the most important academic movements around. It has nothing to do with orthodoxy. I get into arguments with people regarding its application all the time, and I support it!

Recently I got accused of sexism, by a variety of clueless gatekeepers, for just mentioning the word "porn". That is NOT how critical theory works.

I am not into "political correctness" at all.

My working-class upbringing makes it impossible to be "politically correct", nor is it something I want to emulate, but I am still a fan of critical analysis of perceived "facts".

I recommend you check out this video. The author has some other great videos too. He is a Native American, twin-spirit sociologist.
I was being a little facetious.

I've been known to explain and defend Crit Race Theory to Republican relatives. It usually goes something like this:

"Its just looking at how black people have gotten screwed over the years." "White people get screwed, too!" "That's true. But everyone gets screwed in different ways. Its important to understand that so that we can unscrew things." "But nobody should get reparations." "Above my pay grade. Pass the potatoes, please. How bout them Knicks!" "Bunch of monkeys." "OK, then. Nice weather, huh?" "Yeah. If this is climate change, give me more!" "How's the roof at your house?" "Damn Mexicans are ripping me off with that job." sigh.

I'm just kidding. Its not that bad. LOL
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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Queequeg wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:57 am ...I've been known to explain and defend Crit Race Theory to Republican relatives. It usually goes something like this:

"Its just looking at how black people have gotten screwed over the years." "White people get screwed, too!" "That's true. But everyone gets screwed in different ways. Its important to understand that so that we can unscrew things." "But nobody should get reparations." "Above my pay grade. Pass the potatoes, please. How bout them Knicks!" "Bunch of monkeys." "OK, then. Nice weather, huh?" "Yeah. If this is climate change, give me more!" "How's the roof at your house?" "Damn Mexicans are ripping me off with that job." sigh.

I'm just kidding. Its not that bad. LOL
:lol:

You don't know how lucky you are. If I tried it with some of my relatives here, let alone blokes in the pub, I wouldn't even get that far.

:coffee:
Kim
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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Queequeg wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 12:57 amI was being a little facetious.
Sorry, I didn't pick up on it. :emb:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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It seems better to me that those who portend to educate others on the Dharma maintain a delineation between conventional teaching and personally held political conviction, so as not to muddle or confuse one or the other.

Personally, my own political views lean heavily towards communism, although I would not consider myself an orthodox Marxist, because orthodox Marxist theory entails atheism/irreligiosity, and I am very strongly committed to my religious beliefs as a Pure Land Buddhist. I do not expect fellow Buddhists to share my views on politics; I will explain why I view capitalism as inherently exploitative and anti-human if asked, but I will not claim that my political views speak on behalf of the Dharma, or that one is remiss as a Buddhist not to agree with these views.

I see no contradiction between being strongly committed to one's political beliefs and taking care to clarify this distinction, and it seems to me that to do otherwise would only lead to a lack of precision and clarity, both in how one espouses Dharma teaching and how one espouses one's politics. That being said, I don't necessarily see it as problematic to speculate on how one's own political views may be reconcilable or concordant to the Dharma, so long as one admits that such opinion and conjecture is just that, while acknowledging that there may be validity in other interpretations or opinions on how Buddhism may intersect with politics, and - again - allows the conventional teaching to stand on its own, with political interjections as a clearly demarcated aside.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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heartagramadios wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:26 pm It seems better to me that those who portend to educate others on the Dharma maintain a delineation between conventional teaching and personally held political conviction, so as not to muddle or confuse one or the other.
...
I see no contradiction between being strongly committed to one's political beliefs and taking care to clarify this distinction, and it seems to me that to do otherwise would only lead to a lack of precision and clarity, both in how one espouses Dharma teaching and how one espouses one's politics.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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heartagramadios wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:26 pmPersonally, my own political views lean heavily towards communism, although I would not consider myself an orthodox Marxist, because orthodox Marxist theory entails atheism/irreligiosity...
Have you read Marx's "Letter To Ludwig Feuerbach"?

https://marxists.architexturez.net/arch ... _08_11.htm
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
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"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Grigoris wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 7:26 pm
heartagramadios wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:26 pmPersonally, my own political views lean heavily towards communism, although I would not consider myself an orthodox Marxist, because orthodox Marxist theory entails atheism/irreligiosity...
Have you read Marx's "Letter To Ludwig Feuerbach"?

https://marxists.architexturez.net/arch ... _08_11.htm
I know of someone who died violently during an argument over Marx’s Feuerbach.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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heartagramadios wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:26 pmPersonally, my own political views lean heavily towards communism, although I would not consider myself an orthodox Marxist, because orthodox Marxist theory entails atheism/irreligiosity...
… that isn’t an issue if one doesn’t treat Marxism as a religious dogma, which some people seem to do.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:12 pm
heartagramadios wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:26 pmPersonally, my own political views lean heavily towards communism, although I would not consider myself an orthodox Marxist, because orthodox Marxist theory entails atheism/irreligiosity...
… that isn’t an issue if one doesn’t treat Marxism as a religious dogma, which some people seem to do.
I don't understand how Buddhism and orthodox Marxist theory would be compatible when the latter is foundationally materialist, but if anyone would like to inform me on how the two might be reconcilable, I would be more than happy to consider such explanation with an open mind.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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heartagramadios wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:35 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:12 pm
heartagramadios wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:26 pmPersonally, my own political views lean heavily towards communism, although I would not consider myself an orthodox Marxist, because orthodox Marxist theory entails atheism/irreligiosity...
… that isn’t an issue if one doesn’t treat Marxism as a religious dogma, which some people seem to do.
I don't understand how Buddhism and orthodox Marxist theory would be compatible when the latter is foundationally materialist, but if anyone would like to inform me on how the two might be reconcilable, I would be more than happy to consider such explanation with an open mind.
I largely agree with you that they are not.

I used to be a member of a (at the time) active, fairly well known socialist organization, over time I realized that mostly what I agreed with was aspects of the Marxist critique of capitalism, but that there was also a ton to disagree with in terms of reductionist explanations for human behavior, to begin with.

Of course when you hang out with some Marxists, they treat it like a religion, where acceptance of some of the theory means accepting all of it.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

heartagramadios wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:35 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 9:12 pm
heartagramadios wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2024 9:26 pmPersonally, my own political views lean heavily towards communism, although I would not consider myself an orthodox Marxist, because orthodox Marxist theory entails atheism/irreligiosity...
… that isn’t an issue if one doesn’t treat Marxism as a religious dogma, which some people seem to do.
I don't understand how Buddhism and orthodox Marxist theory would be compatible when the latter is foundationally materialist, but if anyone would like to inform me on how the two might be reconcilable, I would be more than happy to consider such explanation with an open mind.
Simply holding the concept of “orthodox Marxism” regards Marxist theory as some kind of unbendable dogma, which it isn’t, although even many Marxists treat it as such.
It reminds me of the Chinese Red Guard in the 1960s.

Sure, Marx had opinions about things. We can agree with them or not. But it’s not like religion, like you truly are or are not a Marxist.
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Re: Politics in dharma center - article

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heartagramadios wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2024 11:35 pmI don't understand how Buddhism and orthodox Marxist theory would be compatible when the latter is foundationally materialist, but if anyone would like to inform me on how the two might be reconcilable, I would be more than happy to consider such explanation with an open mind.
Relative and ultimate truth. Science is also a Materialist dogma, are you going to throw that baby out too?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
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