Buddhism, Driving, and Vehicular Vengeance

[CosmicVitamins]

I am fascinated by the human trend of revenge in daily life, especially when driving. If Buddha had been born in the modern world, what words would they have regarding our streets full of traffic?

Ever hear this statement, or something like it?

"Everyone sins, and if you drive in traffic, you soon will."

There's a disconnect when humans get behind the wheel of a vehicle. Suddenly people aren't people, they're objects, cars, trucks, non-beings.

Are you a Buddhist? What does it look like when someone cuts you off in traffic? Do you see them as a person, a being, or a vehicle? Is traffic somehow exempt from ethical conduct? I ask because I've seen Buddhists, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics (etc.) drive... and they all drive the same. Notable exceptions within each group but the majority drive as you'd expect. Like crazy people.

There seems to be something in this life which enables believers (followers of ethical paths) to treat one another well in most situations, but it doesn't track to traffic. The rules change, revenge sprouts naturally, accountability is not there. What are your thoughts?

How would the Buddha drive?

[PadmaVonSamba]

I laugh at crazy drivers and let it go.

And after I put sticker on the back of my car that says:

I BET YOU’RE IN A HURRY.

people stopped driving so closely behind me.

[CosmicVitamins]

I laugh at crazy drivers and let it go.

And after I put sticker on the back of my car that says:
I BET YOU’RE IN A HURRY.
people stopped driving so closely behind me.

Traffic is a good teacher, and she is relentless in reflecting the inner self.

Thank you for your response. Interesting. This is a common response that I hear often, but when I meet the person face-to-face, they're not always as they portray. When I ask questions of Buddhists these answers are almost immediate. Smiles. Laughter. Good Humor. I have to wonder how deep this goes.

[PadmaVonSamba]

I laugh at crazy drivers and let it go.

And after I put sticker on the back of my car that says:
I BET YOU’RE IN A HURRY.
people stopped driving so closely behind me.

Traffic is a good teacher, and she is relentless in reflecting the inner self.

Thank you for your response. Interesting. This is a common response that I hear often, but when I meet the person face-to-face, they're not always as they portray. When I ask questions of Buddhists these answers are almost immediate. Smiles. Laughter. Good Humor. I have to wonder how deep this goes.

I look at it this way: eventually every driver has to merge onto a busy freeway or highway at a high speed. You’ve got to find that little window between two cars where you can zoom up to their speed and slip in.

Okay. What colors were the last two cars you merged between?

That’s the funny thing. It’s probably the most critical, split-second, life and death moment in most people’s daily lives, but then nobody remembers the details. It’s immediately forgotten. But if someone cuts you off in a parking lot, people will go on about it for hours.

I realize the reason why people drive like total jerks is the same reason I do everything I do and what motivates everybody… to be free from suffering. So, I call them jerks, I wish them luck, hope they will find peace, and let it go just as I already let go of those two cars in the merge lane.

[KeithA]

Driving is my best teacher. I am at my worse when I am driving. Impatient, quick to be angry, etc. Good grist for the mill.

_/|\_

[Bristollad]

How would the Buddha drive?

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t, he’d catch the bus

[shaunc]

I spend a lot of time driving on the road and nearly every job I've had in my life involved driving. Yes, people do some silly things, I can almost count on at least one instance a day.
I just let it go, what am I going to do about it anyway.

[PadmaVonSamba]

How would the Buddha drive?

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t, he’d catch the bus

Or he’d ride in Chanrakirti’s conceptually assembled chariot.

[CosmicVitamins]

I look at it this way: eventually every driver has to merge onto a busy freeway or highway at a high speed. You’ve got to find that little window between two cars where you can zoom up to their speed and slip in.

Okay. What colors were the last two cars you merged between?

That’s the funny thing. It’s probably the most critical, split-second, life and death moment in most people’s daily lives, but then nobody remembers the details. It’s immediately forgotten. But if someone cuts you off in a parking lot, people will go on about it for hours.

I realize the reason why people drive like total jerks is the same reason I do everything I do and what motivates everybody… to be free from suffering. So, I call them jerks, I wish them luck, hope they will find peace, and let it go just as I already let go of those two cars in the merge lane.

Solid statements, thank you PadmaVonSamba, I appreciate the followup, very inciteful.

Driving is my best teacher. I am at my worse when I am driving. Impatient, quick to be angry, etc. Good grist for the mill.

Holy Smokes, it is so true. I don't think I've seen another environment where revenge plays out faster. Traffic really lays bare human interaction in a language of simple, powerful, communication. I've not met anyone who was truly above these difficulties when behind the wheel.

How would the Buddha drive?

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t, he’d catch the bus

I confess a bit of upset here. Is this deflection? Or is this a true expression of humor? Or is this programming that you picked up from another teacher? It's almost universal in Buddhist circles, I ask a difficult question, there is a deflective statement made with a "wisdomical" vibe, and the question is safely ignored. If I then ask, "Yeah about my question, I've spent a lot of thought on it and I'd like a thoughtful response, can I get a dialed-in answer please?" Suddenly - I'm rude, and the vibe changes from "humerously filled with wisdom" to, "Who do you think you are?" Interested in your thoughts here.

I spend a lot of time driving on the road and nearly every job I've had in my life involved driving. Yes, people do some silly things, I can almost count on at least one instance a day.
I just let it go, what am I going to do about it anyway.

Thank you ShaunC, but to be contrary, you could have done something, but likely nothing wholesome. I applaud your actions and thank you for your response.

[PadmaVonSamba]

How would the Buddha drive?

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t, he’d catch the bus

I confess a bit of upset here.

A web forum is like a busy street. What’s the point in being upset? You can’t expect other people to know what sort of replies you’d prefer.

As long as people are driving courteously on the road, and as long as they are replying politely on the web , you can’t really expect others to guess how you will interpret their actions.

Impressions can be misleading.
Assumptions, even more so.
You stated:

There seems to be something in this life which enables believers (followers of ethical paths) to treat one another well in most situations, but it doesn't track to traffic.

…but how do you arrive at this conclusion? Was it the bumper stickers on their cars?

[CosmicVitamins]

A web forum is like a busy street. What’s the point in being upset? You can’t expect other people to know what sort of replies you’d prefer.

As long as people are driving courteously on the road, and as long as they are replying politely on the web , you can’t really expect others to guess how you will interpret their actions.

Impressions can be misleading.
Assumptions, even more so.
You stated:

There seems to be something in this life which enables believers (followers of ethical paths) to treat one another well in most situations, but it doesn't track to traffic.

…but how do you arrive at this conclusion? Was it the bumper stickers on their cars?

Vengeance is yours, I've challenged the forums and now you challenge me. Much applause.

I feel a forum has little to do with a busy street as traffic has only basic and brutal forms of communication whilst here we can communicate through the written word.

What's the point of being upset? Often the act of being upset itself. It's intensely human despite the professed belief system. I have no expectation of others guessing how to interpret my actions because I literally told you why I found it upsetting. In detail. With a lot of words entirely lacking bright flashing headlights, honking, or tail-gaiting.

How did I come to the conclusion that humans try to treat each other ethically but it doesn't entirely extend to traffic? Study, writing papers on the subject and a lot of personal research on the detriments and problematic merits of revenge. Would you like me to cite sources? The reading is quite interesting but extremely dry. Many naps are required to get through it.

Also the question wasn't answered, it was deflected, again. Very human.

[Johnny Dangerous]

I think you are possibly over complicating this.

People get upset in cars because of the visceral physical nature of driving (if you’ve researched it, then you know how it can affect blood pressure, etc), trying to get from one place to another at high speed while facing variable obstructions (many of which are dependent on the behavior of others) and possibly physical danger. It’s not a complicated moral quandary, people act worse under stress, and for many people driving is stressful.

That said, it’s a great place for spiritual practice simply due to the fact that it annoys so many people, in a such an intense way.

How did I come to the conclusion that humans try to treat each other ethically but it doesn't entirely extend to traffic

Demonstrably, the vast majority of people drive in an ethically neutral, if less than competent way. Flipping people off is relatively rare in the larger scheme, and road rage incidents, while regrettable, are not something most drivers seem to engage in. For many drivers the upset is internal, yelling in a car by oneself, etc. while this might be an issue for the driver, it can’t be an issue of ethics with regard to others, as they are not being affected.

[PadmaVonSamba]

Vengeance is yours, I've challenged the forums and now you challenge me. Much applause.

???
Sorry, I forgot…which comic book villain are you?

I literally told you why I found it upsetting. In detail. With a lot of words entirely lacking bright flashing headlights, honking, or tail-gaiting.

Actually, you didn’t.
This just sounds like trolling.

Maybe you could get a job with the highways department, and put all that energy to some good use.

[PadmaVonSamba]

Are you a Buddhist? What does it look like when someone cuts you off in traffic? Do you see them as a person, a being, or a vehicle? Is traffic somehow exempt from ethical conduct? I ask because I've seen Buddhists, Christians, Atheists, Agnostics (etc.) drive... and they all drive the same. Notable exceptions within each group but the majority drive as you'd expect. Like crazy people.

You ask a question and then immediately follow with accusations. Then you claim to have done “a lot of personal research”.

But since Buddhists comprise an extremely minute fraction of the American and European populations, we must also represent an incredibly small percentage of drivers, probably less than .001%
So if you haven’t calculated this into your “research” then maybe it isn’t very reliable.
It’s quite possible that the .001% of drivers who aren’t crazy are the Buddhists.

If you want to be angry at bad drivers and frustrating traffic, go ahead. There an infinite supply of it.
But it’s not a traditional Buddhist practice.

In Taiwan, which has a very large Buddhist population, some very narrow streets, as well as some very densely populated areas, drivers are very courteous mix of cars, motor scooters, push carts, trucks, and buses, not to mention pedestrian traffic for lack of sidewalks.
So, we can probably rule out Buddhism as a factor contributing to bad, distracted, or aggressive driving.

If I were to make a wild guess, I’d say that the biggest factor contributing to angry driving is probably…
…people who have anger issues about other drivers.

[narhwal90]

As a motorcycle rider I see a lot more inattentive driving than wrathful driving. eg, drivers messing on their phones with facebook etc or watching movies, sometimes women putting on makeup. Occasionally they decide to just shift right into where I'm riding but thats part of the game when on a motorcycle so is expected. Anectodally, wrt commute issues I find most times folks are on autopilot watching their phones.

Others decide they need to beat traffic by running down the shoulders. There are the street racer types who weave through traffic, but as for the vengeance types who run up on vehicles ahead and/or brake check folks, I don't see them frequently.


I think if the Buddha had a motor vehicle it'd be a used moped; inexpensive, fuel efficient, fast enough for local travel at least, can carry the alms bowl, robes, some working materials, easy to fix and in some circumstances doesn't need registration and tags. Not attractive to steal and little drama when its time is done. Some in the sangha might have issues and want him to ride something fancy- but he'd surely put enough hard miles on it to earn the respect of the other riders. He'd probably be involved with most of his own wrenching, as an example. OTOH there is the buying fuel and parts angle- so maybe he'd really just take the bus as suggested above.

[Bristollad]

How would the Buddha drive?

I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t, he’d catch the bus

I confess a bit of upset here. Is this deflection? Or is this a true expression of humor? Or is this programming that you picked up from another teacher? It's almost universal in Buddhist circles, I ask a difficult question, there is a deflective statement made with a "wisdomical" vibe, and the question is safely ignored. If I then ask, "Yeah about my question, I've spent a lot of thought on it and I'd like a thoughtful response, can I get a dialed-in answer please?" Suddenly - I'm rude, and the vibe changes from "humerously filled with wisdom" to, "Who do you think you are?" Interested in your thoughts here.

Not everything said with humour is a deflection.

During the Buddha's lifetime, his community of monks and nuns followed a set of rules to help them behave ethically, to allow them to keep their minds calm, and to not upset lay followers. One of those rules was that a monk or nun should not travel in chariots (which were of course restricted to the rich and also used in warfare). Accordingly, the community, including the Buddha, would walk from place to place.

Even today, the community of monks and nuns have these rules, which are variously observed by different communities. But generally, a monk or a nun would not own a car or other motor vehicle. A monastery might have a car or van that is for community use. Ownership and the upkeep of a vehicle come with a lot of potential for disturbing the mind. Instead, a monk or nun will rely on lay followers or on public transport for travelling to places they can't walk to.

So yeah, the Buddha would probably ride the bus