Doesn't Dzogchen talk about a reflexive awareness? For example:natusake wrote: ↑Mon Sep 18, 2023 6:21 pm I suggest you read at least the last couple pages. It covers why, from a Buddhist point of view, the mind and its nature cannot be reflexive in this way. The question itself is based on a misapprehension of the mind, which involves attributing to thought what cannot be attributed to it, i.e. that it has some sort of origin or source (the mind), that it comes from somewhere (a thinker), and that there is a someone who knows thought (a knower). Mind is unknowable because the reification "mind" doesn't actually exist.
The early suttas reject a consciousness that knows itself implicitly by denying that consciousness can be its own support. The Bijasutta (SN 22.54):
“Consciousness, bhikkhus, while standing, might stand engaged with form; based upon form, established upon form, with a sprinkling of delight, it might come to growth, increase, and expansion. Or consciousness, while standing, might stand engaged with feeling … engaged with perception … engaged with volitional formations; based upon volitional formations, established upon volitional formations, with a sprinkling of delight, it might come to growth, increase, and expansion.
“Bhikkhus, though someone might say: ‘Apart from form, apart from feeling, apart from perception, apart from volitional formations, I will make known the coming and going of consciousness, its passing away and rebirth, its growth, increase, and expansion’—that is impossible.
Loppon Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche from Bonpo Dzogchen Teachings:
I think this was quoted earlier in the thread too, but Mipham Rinpoche also talks about this here:According to Dzogchen, Rang-rig is the awareness which knows the Natural State. It is not something separate from the Natural State. The Natural State is aware of itself; it is self-aware and self-illuminated.
https://www.lotsawahouse.org/tibetan-ma ... -awareness
Does the distinction between clarity (gsal-ba) and consciousness come into play here, where clarity is self-illuminating and is unconditioned (at least in Dzogchen), but consciousness is non-reflexive and is conditioned?