Origin of Mushotoku

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Tao
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Origin of Mushotoku

Post by Tao »

When does the word Mushotoku appear in Zen Soto literature? Is in the Shobogenzo ? I cannot remember reading it but it can be there translated, If not when and who introduce it as a central concept for Zen Soto?

I'm asking about the exact word (無所得) and its rellevance. I understand that the idea of "not having personal profit" is inherent to the bodhisattva path so it's there from the very start. But it's not so stressed anywhere else as in Zen Soto.

Thank you for any reply
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Re: Origin of Mushotoku

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Tao wrote: Mon Sep 18, 2023 2:33 pmIs in the Shobogenzo ?
It's not there. The closest are chapters 18 and 19: Mind Cannot Be Grasped (心不可得).

Comes up once in Koun Ejo's The Practice of the Treasury of Luminosity: 'Practice the nothing gained (無所得) of luminosity.'

The (Heart Sutra) has it though:

'With nothing to attain (無所得), a bodhisattva relies on prajnaparamita'
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Origin of Mushotoku

Post by Tao »

Dear Astus, do you know when the concept won its importance in Soto? as a central idea... it was later?

Rinzai shares that importance?

BTW, is it "nothing to attain" or "non profit for oneself"? I see both ways to explain it here in Spain, but mostly they use the "non profit", and for me it's not the same...they're close, but not the same, literally is "nothig to attain", isnt it?

Thanks in advance

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Re: Origin of Mushotoku

Post by Astus »

Tao wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2023 10:47 amdo you know when the concept won its importance in Soto? as a central idea... it was later?
Rinzai shares that importance?
I do not know.
BTW, is it "nothing to attain" or "non profit for oneself"? I see both ways to explain it here in Spain, but mostly they use the "non profit", and for me it's not the same...they're close, but not the same, literally is "nothig to attain", isnt it?
It is 'nothing to attain'.

'to transcend the characteristics of the various dharmas, without anything that is attained (無所得): this is called the Supreme Vehicle'
(Platform Sutra, ch 7, BDK ed, p 63)

Pei Xiu asked, “How do we arouse the bodhi mind?”
The master replied, “Bodhi is not something to be attained
(無所得). Right now you need only arouse this mind that is unascertainable (無所得), which is certain that there is not a single dharma that can be attained (不得). That is the bodhi mind.”
(A Bird in Flight Leaves No Trace, 2.10)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Origin of Mushotoku

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