Bristollad wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:37 am
Aemilius wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 9:02 am
But he also gave me a simple card trick, which was scientifically impossible, but it worked every time.
I strongly suspect your belief that this "simple card trick" is actually scientifically impossible is false - it's simply that you don't understand the mechanism behind that trick that allows it to work every time. Your friend taught you the "what to do" for the trick, but not the "why it works". It's like telling someone to behave ethically if they want a good life but not explaining karma and results - behaving ethically will bring good results whether you understand karma or not.
It is not like that, the comparison is not appropriate. World has changed quite a lot form the times of Gautama Shakyamuni.
In His times magic charms or magic spells were part of the accepted consensus reality. They were part of the explanation how things happen in the world. Magic spells or magic charms are mentioned in this manner in the sutras, for example in the
Kevatta (or Kevaddha) sutta DN 11. There are also at least six Jataka stories in which magic spells play a prominent part.
We must remember that the scientific world view was nonexistent at the time of Buddha Gautama. From the Jataka stories and from the Kevaddha sutta we can see that the magic spells were the normal established explanation of how things work in the universe. Buddha's view and teaching about how things arise in the world was something quite new and modern compared to it. Magic spells are mentioned in the Jatakas: 150, 159, 203, 241, 386, and 543 IV. This is not a comprehensive list. As an example we can take No. 386.
Kharaputta Jataka:
"....The young nāgas hearing this turned back at once to the nāga-world and told their king. He being moved went instantly to the king's chamber, told him all and was forgiven: then be said, "In this way I make amends," and
gave the king a charm giving knowledge of all sounds: "This, O king, is a priceless spell: if you give anyone this spell you will at once enter the fire and die." The king said, "It is well," and accepted it. From that time he understood the voice even of ants. One day he was sitting on the dais eating solid food with honey and molasses: and a drop of honey, a drop of molasses, and a morsel of cake fell on the ground. An ant seeing this comes crying, "The king's honey jar is broken on the dais, his molasses-cart and cake-cart are upset; come and eat honey and molasses and cake." The king hearing the cry laughed. The queen being near him thought, "What has the king seen that he laughs?" When the king had eaten his solid food and bathed and sat down cross-legged, a fly said to his wife, "Come, lady, let us enjoy love." She said, "Excuse me for a little, husband: they
will soon be bringing perfumes to the king; as he perfumes himself some powder will fall at his feet: I will stay there and become fragrant, then we will enjoy ourselves lying on the king's back." The king hearing the voice laughed again. The queen thought again, "What has he seen that he laughs?" Again when the king was eating his supper, a lump of rice fell on the ground. The ants cried, "A wagon of rice has broken in the king's palace, and there is none to eat it." The king hearing this laughed again. The queen took a golden spoon and helping him reflected, "Is it at the sight of me that the king laughs?" She went to the bed-chamber with the king and at bed-time she asked, "Why did you laugh, O king?" He said, "What have you to do with why I laugh?" but being asked again and again he told her. Then she said, "Give me your spell of knowledge." He said, "It cannot be given": but though repulsed she pressed him again.
The king said, "If I give you this spell, I shall die." "Even though you die, give it me." The king, being in the power of womankind, saying, "It is well," consented and went to the park in a chariot, saying, "I shall enter the fire after giving away this spell." At that moment, Sakka, king of gods, looked down on the earth and seeing this case said, "This foolish king, knowing that he will enter the fire through womankind, is on his way; I will give him his life ": so he took Sujā, daughter of the Asuras, and went to Benares... etc.."
complete text:
https://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/j3/j3087.htm
Kevatta (Kevaddha) Sutta: To Kevatta:
"Then the person without faith, without conviction, would say to the person with faith and with conviction:
'Sir, there is a charm called the Gandhari charm by which the monk wielded manifold psychic powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, and mountains as if through space. He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.' What do you think, Kevatta — isn't that what the man without faith, without conviction, would say to the man with faith and with conviction?"
"Yes, lord, that's just what he would say."
complete sutta
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html