No guru, no dzogchen?

[Johnny Dangerous]

Talk on the role of Shamatha/Vipaysana split to here:

https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=42380

[ject]

... First things first, however. Learn Song of the Vajra. It is the supreme method of discovering your real nature.

Thank you for your time and effort. Ordering the book.

[Tata1]

You're just wasting Malcolm's valuable time.

I dont agree with jules post either but your last too comments have been completely uncalled for. If you get so worked up about someone disagreeing in internet with you then maybe you should start judging your own practice, not his. You are gonna get another good thread locked.

As I said before before my reply got deleted, Jules does not know what he is talking about. The thread had run its course with him determining that course, as so often. It is Jules who hijacks Dzogchen threads to death with his agenda. He does elicit good replies from several others, but only to counter his misinformation.

It is typical of the moderation on this forum that your self-righteous comment is allowed, while my reply was deleted.

If you cant understand something as simple as treating other who you do not agree with with respect then there is nothing more to talk.

[Archie2009]

I dont agree with jules post either but your last too comments have been completely uncalled for. If you get so worked up about someone disagreeing in internet with you then maybe you should start judging your own practice, not his. You are gonna get another good thread locked.

As I said before before my reply got deleted, Jules does not know what he is talking about. The thread had run its course with him determining that course, as so often. It is Jules who hijacks Dzogchen threads to death with his agenda. He does elicit good replies from several others, but only to counter his misinformation.

It is typical of the moderation on this forum that your self-righteous comment is allowed, while my reply was deleted.

If you cant understand something as simple as treating other who you do not agree with with respect then there is nothing more to talk.

I get what you are saying, but I feel there is a difference between having a difference of opinion and indulging a zealous flat-earther, which is a fair comparison to Jules position. In Dzogchen it is possible to be no longer in doubt due to experience. It is clear Jules' experience does not reach that far. That might sound self-aggrandizing, but the Dzogchen equivalent of a flat-earther position is fit for ridicule, and I wasn't the only one doing the ridiculing. Though I do have less patience than most. That is clear.

[muni]

I get what you are saying, but I feel there is a difference between having a difference of opinion and indulging a zealous flat-earther, which is a fair comparison to Jules position. In Dzogchen it is possible to be no longer in doubt due to experience. It is clear Jules' experience does not reach that far. That might sound self-aggrandizing, but the Dzogchen equivalent of a flat-earther position is fit for ridicule, and I wasn't the only one doing the ridiculing. Though I do have less patience than most. That is clear.

And you are sure this is not a projection what is been supported?

[ject]

There are three essential books you need to have to understand ChNN's presentation of Dzogchen: the Guruyoga book; the Precious Vase, and the Song of the Vajra book. Now that you have received transmission from YSN, you can purchase these books and learn from them. Many Dzogchen practices such as the separation of samsara and nirvana as well as the semzins can be practiced with no further required transmissions other than a direct introduction. So now it is up to you. You practice these things, you gain some experience, and then you will have something to ask about. In the meantime, without some experience, you will not have any real valid questions. First things first, however. Learn Song of the Vajra. It is the supreme method of discovering your real nature.

Books are interesting, almost done with "The Song Of The Vajra" but I am still stuck at "...other than a direct introduction".
I have been doing the visualisation of "A" with and without aid for while. Started before I read this particular book. It's getting a bit boring

[Norwegian]

There are three essential books you need to have to understand ChNN's presentation of Dzogchen: the Guruyoga book; the Precious Vase, and the Song of the Vajra book. Now that you have received transmission from YSN, you can purchase these books and learn from them. Many Dzogchen practices such as the separation of samsara and nirvana as well as the semzins can be practiced with no further required transmissions other than a direct introduction. So now it is up to you. You practice these things, you gain some experience, and then you will have something to ask about. In the meantime, without some experience, you will not have any real valid questions. First things first, however. Learn Song of the Vajra. It is the supreme method of discovering your real nature.

Books are interesting, almost done with "The Song Of The Vajra" but I am still stuck at "...other than a direct introduction".
I have been doing the visualisation of "A" with and without aid for while. Started before I read this particular book. It's getting a bit boring

Did you not participate in Yeshi's retreat?

[ject]

There are three essential books you need to have to understand ChNN's presentation of Dzogchen: the Guruyoga book; the Precious Vase, and the Song of the Vajra book. Now that you havereceived transmission from YSN, you can purchase these books and learn from them. Many Dzogchen practices such as the separation of samsara and nirvana as well as the semzins can be practiced with no further required transmissions other than a direct introduction. So now it is up to you. You practice these things, you gain some experience, and then you will have something to ask about. In the meantime, without some experience, you will not have any real valid questions. First things first, however. Learn Song of the Vajra. It is the supreme method of discovering your real nature.

Did you not participate in Yeshi's retreat?

I do not understand your question.

[Dawa Ösel]

There are three essential books you need to have to understand ChNN's presentation of Dzogchen: the Guruyoga book; the Precious Vase, and the Song of the Vajra book. Now that you havereceived transmission from YSN, you can purchase these books and learn from them. Many Dzogchen practices such as the separation of samsara and nirvana as well as the semzins can be practiced with no further required transmissions other than a direct introduction. So now it is up to you. You practice these things, you gain some experience, and then you will have something to ask about. In the meantime, without some experience, you will not have any real valid questions. First things first, however. Learn Song of the Vajra. It is the supreme method of discovering your real nature.

Did you not participate in Yeshi's retreat?

I do not understand your question.

He wants to know, if you got your direct introduction or not

[Tata1]

There are three essential books you need to have to understand ChNN's presentation of Dzogchen: the Guruyoga book; the Precious Vase, and the Song of the Vajra book. Now that you have received transmission from YSN, you can purchase these books and learn from them. Many Dzogchen practices such as the separation of samsara and nirvana as well as the semzins can be practiced with no further required transmissions other than a direct introduction. So now it is up to you. You practice these things, you gain some experience, and then you will have something to ask about. In the meantime, without some experience, you will not have any real valid questions. First things first, however. Learn Song of the Vajra. It is the supreme method of discovering your real nature.

Books are interesting, almost done with "The Song Of The Vajra" but I am still stuck at "...other than a direct introduction".
I have been doing the visualisation of "A" with and without aid for while. Started before I read this particular book. It's getting a bit boring

Igor berkhin is giving a series of lectures on the basics on weekends. Im sure you can ask him the recording of the first day

[ject]

...

Igor berkhin is giving a series of lectures on the basics on weekends. Im sure you can ask him the recording of the first day

Thank for the hint but where? Got a link?

[ject]

Did you not participate in Yeshi's retreat?

I do not understand your question.

He wants to know, if you got your direct introduction or not

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature.
I have never participated in any of his events before so maybe it was there but I completely missed it.
Or maybe I did not understand the translator etc.
It is also possible that I am confused about the terminology.
I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

[Archie2009]

I do not understand your question.

He wants to know, if you got your direct introduction or not

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature.
I have never participated in any of his events before so maybe it was there but I completely missed it.
Or maybe I did not understand the translator etc.
It is also possible that I am confused about the terminology.
I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

Yeshi was speaking on several levels from the start of the first session, as he admitted.

[Tata1]

I do not understand your question.

He wants to know, if you got your direct introduction or not

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature.
I have never participated in any of his events before so maybe it was there but I completely missed it.
Or maybe I did not understand the translator etc.
It is also possible that I am confused about the terminology.
I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

You did. The first thing he did was.explain ati guru yoga and he expanded on that.

[ject]

He wants to know, if you got your direct introduction or not

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature.
I have never participated in any of his events before so maybe it was there but I completely missed it.
Or maybe I did not understand the translator etc.
It is also possible that I am confused about the terminology.
I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

You did. The first thing he did was.explain ati guru yoga and he expanded on that.

So, are you telling me that I can finally participate in all those events with "Requirement for the retreat: direct introduction by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or Yeshi Silvano Namkhai." label?

That's awesome!

[Tata1]

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature.
I have never participated in any of his events before so maybe it was there but I completely missed it.
Or maybe I did not understand the translator etc.
It is also possible that I am confused about the terminology.
I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

You did. The first thing he did was.explain ati guru yoga and he expanded on that.

So, are you telling me that I can finally participate in all those events with "Requirement for the retreat: direct introduction by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or Yeshi Silvano Namkhai." label?

That's awesome!

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

[Jules 09]

You did. The first thing he did was.explain ati guru yoga and he expanded on that.

So, are you telling me that I can finally participate in all those events with "Requirement for the retreat: direct introduction by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or Yeshi Silvano Namkhai." label?

That's awesome!

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

ject wrote:

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature...

I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

Tata1 wrote:

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

If ject is, as stated, "completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality" ",
what exactly is it that "will mature with time" ?

[Tata1]

So, are you telling me that I can finally participate in all those events with "Requirement for the retreat: direct introduction by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or Yeshi Silvano Namkhai." label?

That's awesome!

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

ject wrote:

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature...

I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

Tata1 wrote:

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

If ject is, as stated, "completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality" ",
what exactly is it that "will mature with time" ?

The recognition of his own state.
99% of people dont get it during DI, but applying the methods eventually they do
We know you are chigcharwa jules, dont worry

[stoneinfocus]

So, are you telling me that I can finally participate in all those events with "Requirement for the retreat: direct introduction by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu or Yeshi Silvano Namkhai." label?

That's awesome!

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

ject wrote:

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature...

I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

Tata1 wrote:

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

If ject is, as stated, "completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality" ",
what exactly is it that "will mature with time" ?

His understanding of his real condition. Obviously.

[Jules 09]

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

ject wrote:

In the last event? I cant recall receiving any instructions to have a direct experience or being introduced to my nature...

I am also completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality".

Tata1 wrote:

Yes my friend. Dont worry to much things will mature with time

If ject is, as stated, "completely oblivious to my "real condition and potentiality" ",
what exactly is it that "will mature with time" ?

The recognition of his own state.
99% of people dont get it during DI, but applying the methods eventually they do
We know you are chigcharwa jules, dont worry

99% of people dont get it during DI, but applying the methods eventually they do

So, you appear to be saying that 99% of people that receive DI (Dzogchen Community terminology), are not able to actually practice Dzogchen, as per the Three Statements of Garab Dorje, until some time later when they "eventually" recognize what it was that the guru was actually pointing at. ?

I can somewhat agree with that.

However, most practitioners that I've known, have continued to receive teachings and pointing out instructions many times over a period of several, if not many, years. That has also been my own experience.