Why "but..."? It's rather "then..." That is, once one has purified the mind and attained awakening, then there is no cultivation and nothing to gain. In other words, although both oneself and all things are already empty and without anything to grasp, that has to become an actual realisation in order to be free from self-centredness and clinging.
Don’t Know Mind
Re: Don’t Know Mind
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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master of puppets
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master of puppets
- Posts: 1430
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Re: Don’t Know Mind
What is it that attained, really?Astus wrote: ↑Tue Jan 24, 2023 10:59 pmWhy "but..."? It's rather "then..." That is, once one has purified the mind and attained awakening, then there is no cultivation and nothing to gain. In other words, although both oneself and all things are already empty and without anything to grasp, that has to become an actual realisation in order to be free from self-centredness and clinging.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Don’t Know Mind
Tathagata Chan 如來禪 is different than Chan of the Patriarchs 祖師禪. The latter has to do with the new zen methods created by the masters of the lineage in order to communicate the wisdom of zen. They usually involve both cultivation and seated meditation.
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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Don’t Know Mind
The Don’t know mind arises through zen methods. If one doesn’t practice zen, “don’t know” is merely the not knowing of ignorance. If don’t know mind arises through zen practice, this is prajñā pāramitā.
Now the question may be… whether we see zen methods as cultivation or non-cultivation.
Until we see the nature, then merely saying “I have Buddha nature” is blind faith. Assuming that don’t know mind is the Buddha nature… Until we see the nature arise in us, we don’t have “don’t know mind.” (And when I say “arise,” I mean that it will make itself apparent.)
We can talk about attainment because there’s a difference between before and after we experience the wisdom mind. Of course, thinking “I have attained this” is a huge obstacle on the path… but thinking there is no attainment can also easily lead to nihilism. Good practitioners make progress. Great practitioners get enlightened.
Prajñā is not present for most people. It is present for practitioners who have actually manifested it.
Now the question may be… whether we see zen methods as cultivation or non-cultivation.
We can say it’s not something to attain, because it is not something out there, it is our very nature… we already have it. But we can also say we don’t have it because we don’t know we have it. Why? Because we haven’t experienced it.
Until we see the nature, then merely saying “I have Buddha nature” is blind faith. Assuming that don’t know mind is the Buddha nature… Until we see the nature arise in us, we don’t have “don’t know mind.” (And when I say “arise,” I mean that it will make itself apparent.)
We can talk about attainment because there’s a difference between before and after we experience the wisdom mind. Of course, thinking “I have attained this” is a huge obstacle on the path… but thinking there is no attainment can also easily lead to nihilism. Good practitioners make progress. Great practitioners get enlightened.
Prajñā is not present for most people. It is present for practitioners who have actually manifested it.
Re: Don’t Know Mind
That there's nothing to attain.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Re: Don’t Know Mind
Re: Don’t Know Mind
Because it may help avoid trying to attain something you think you're missing. Or perhaps that instruction is more relevant to others.
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SilenceMonkey
- Posts: 1351
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:54 am
Re: Don’t Know Mind
It’s because we cling to concepts (here: clinging to achievements, goals). Don’t Know Mind is the antidote to our mind’s clinging.
Re: Don’t Know Mind
The deep insight of DKM is that there is nothing to get (to know, to obtain). Otherwise it's just ordinary ignorance.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"