Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

FieldBob
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Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by FieldBob »

For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
Giovanni
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Giovanni »

The days in Old Tibet where there was “ in every valley a Lama, and for every Lama a Dharma” have long gone.
We live in different times and in a very different culture. We need to gather nectar where we can, like bees.
Having said that, simply collecting empowerments as a hobby is likely to result in dharma fatigue.
So openness and guidance are very valuable, rather than our own whim.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
That’s probably the best advice.
These days, many lamas freely offer wangs & lungs to public audiences, realizing full well that 99% of those attending probably won’t put any serious effort into doing the practices associated. Maybe they do it for the 1% who will. And anyway, thrse tend to be regarded as “blessings”, as one practitioner told me, “like money in the bank” maybe to help establish a connection in a future life. That’s different of course, from transmissions given by a teacher to a small group of students he of she has been guiding personally.

So, if you follow one tradition (and “follow” is a vague term here) and some lama from another tradition is in your town giving a public talk and suddenly at the end decides to give a medicine Buddha oral transmission of whatever from their tradition, there’s no need to jump up and run out the door before he begins.

There may be some people who feel a connection to a practice which is not widely done in the tradition through which they are connected. Very often in the west, new students don’t really know the difference between schools anyway, and don’t really care, and they just join whatever Vajrayana sangha is nearby. A Kagyu student might learn about and then feel a strong connection to Je Tsonkhapa (Gelugpa). Ultimately, you have to be honest with yourself and your own intuitions.

But at some point, it’s like being on college and selecting a degree program. If you’re in medical school and your main study is pulmonology, it’s not going to help you very much to add gynecology to your studies. Some familiarity with it will benefit you, but it also might cause some confusion.

Likewise, if and when you are at the point of some serious one-on-one master-pupil samaya, well, first of all, you’d be asking your teacher for the answer to this, and not the Internet. And secondly, your level of practice has taken on a more intense dimension to it. Going around getting various transmissions would probably conflict with that.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
You can do whatever you want….you just have to know what you’re getting into.

It’s funny, I hear this kind of thing sometimes but most of the actual Lamas I’ve known have had a ton of teachings and empowerment from at least 2-3 lineages.

I guess you could come up with some goofy Byzantine set of rules, but the basic thing wrt to daily practice is commitment and focus, so sure if you jump around too much it could cause issues, but these kind of rule proclamations always strike me as silly.

I agree with Giovanni that a big thing here is guidance. You can acquire all sorts of practices, teachings, etc. that are terribly useful without regular guidance of sone kind.
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jamesrigzin
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by jamesrigzin »

I asked this question once…to which the teacher replied:

“Practicing many lineages is like having many women; it’s nice… but it’s confusing”.

As a virile young man, this really hit home - especially considering 3 ex-girlfriends were sitting together, also in the audience, and laughing at me.

Careful what you ask the lama…
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PemaSherab
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by PemaSherab »

Giovanni wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 3:59 pm The days in Old Tibet where there was “ in every valley a Lama, and for every Lama a Dharma” have long gone.
We live in different times and in a very different culture. We need to gather nectar where we can, like bees.
Having said that, simply collecting empowerments as a hobby is likely to result in dharma fatigue.
So openness and guidance are very valuable, rather than our own whim.
With current tech we could rephrase that statement, "In every screen a Lama, and for every Lama a Dharma"

I've never worried about mixing things up, although I don't do it to a large degree. I use what works since Dzogchen is my primary practice. My root Lama was Nyingmapa that was educated at a Kagyu Monastery.
Q:Is the ability “to see what is in front of us” a way of escaping from the image-prison which surrounds us?
A: Very definitely, yes. But this is an ability which very few people have, and fewer and fewer as time passes.

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climb-up
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by climb-up »

If you have tested the lama, and have in them, and want to receive their teachings and put them into practice, then you should do that; Which of the five big groups they belong to is not very important.
But, of course, you shouldn't get all distracted and jump form one teacher to another, collecting empowerments and then doing little random bits of different practices here and there, that would be pointless, at best. If you're not planning on following a teacher, it's generally best not to receive an empowerment (that's what I was taught, some disagree and say that considering them a blessing is fine).
"Death's second name is 'omnipresent.' On the relative truth it seems we become separate. But on the absolute there is no separation." Lama Dawa
jet.urgyen
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by jet.urgyen »

Understand the povs, but do not mix them to make a new one -of your own-.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Malcolm
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Malcolm »

FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
I don't know what other people do. For me, Dzogchen is sufficient
Tata1
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Tata1 »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2023 5:42 pm
FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
I don't know what other people do. For me, Dzogchen is sufficient
Do you still practice your sakya stuff from time to time?
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Lingpupa »

I began last century with Kagyu teachers, admittedly very open-minded ones, but later moved across to become thoroughly Nyingmified. As time went on I realized more and more how different they are in flavour and in detail if not in overall drift. So yes, you can happily eat a Marmite sandwich, you can happily eat ice-cream with bitter cherries in syrup. But probably not at the same time.
All best wishes

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heart
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by heart »

Lingpupa wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:24 am I began last century with Kagyu teachers, admittedly very open-minded ones, but later moved across to become thoroughly Nyingmified. As time went on I realized more and more how different they are in flavour and in detail if not in overall drift. So yes, you can happily eat a Marmite sandwich, you can happily eat ice-cream with bitter cherries in syrup. But probably not at the same time.
Interestingly I and so many I know went the same way, from Kagyu to Nyingma.
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
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"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
tingdzin
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by tingdzin »

I second PadmaVonSamba. Exploring the various schools and teachers as a beginner is fine, but one eventually has to decide on one main approach. A lot of beginners are not aware of the very large differences between the schools in terms of everything from underlying assumptions to meditational and ritual practices, to philosophical bases, and even in "flavor". This is in spite of the fact that most Tibetan Buddhism is superficially similar.

If you are content with practicing whatever suits your fancy, it's your choice, absolutely, but if you ever want to penetrate to a more profound level of understanding, you will have to concentrate in one area, and ideally with one or a small number of teachers. The West is now seeing lamas who claim to be, and maybe are, well-studied in the teachings of many or all of the Tibetan schools, but have practiced none of them in any depth. Such teachers may suit those whose interests remain mainly intellectual, but I would not take one as a spiritual guide, myself.


One can see every day on this board postings that show confusion because posters do not recognize that different teachers operate within different frames of reference, even within the same school.
Malcolm
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Malcolm »

Tata1 wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2023 5:54 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sun Jun 25, 2023 5:42 pm
FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
I don't know what other people do. For me, Dzogchen is sufficient
Do you still practice your sakya stuff from time to time?
I still do Sakya translations for Khenpo Migmar. But is not my main area of interest or practice. My focus is Dzogchen.
Malcolm
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Malcolm »

heart wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:17 am
Lingpupa wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:24 am I began last century with Kagyu teachers, admittedly very open-minded ones, but later moved across to become thoroughly Nyingmified. As time went on I realized more and more how different they are in flavour and in detail if not in overall drift. So yes, you can happily eat a Marmite sandwich, you can happily eat ice-cream with bitter cherries in syrup. But probably not at the same time.
Interestingly I and so many I know went the same way, from Kagyu to Nyingma.
Sakyas --> Nyingma
Kagyus --> Nyingma
Gelug --> Kagyu
Nyingmas --> Bon
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heart
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by heart »

Malcolm wrote: Tue Jun 27, 2023 5:23 pm
heart wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 8:17 am
Lingpupa wrote: Mon Jun 26, 2023 6:24 am I began last century with Kagyu teachers, admittedly very open-minded ones, but later moved across to become thoroughly Nyingmified. As time went on I realized more and more how different they are in flavour and in detail if not in overall drift. So yes, you can happily eat a Marmite sandwich, you can happily eat ice-cream with bitter cherries in syrup. But probably not at the same time.
Interestingly I and so many I know went the same way, from Kagyu to Nyingma.
Sakyas --> Nyingma
Kagyus --> Nyingma
Gelug --> Kagyu
Nyingmas --> Bon
:smile:
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Silent Bob
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by Silent Bob »

I've never been a collector of empowerments, but I've had quite a few over the years. Once my youthful enthusiasm had died down a bit, after 20 or so years :juggling: , I found that I was more focused doing the practices I'd been given by my root lama and under the Karma Kamtsang umbrella.

Chris
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
jet.urgyen
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by jet.urgyen »

FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
One interesting thing, in the original teaching, the termas, in general is indicated that one sould not change anything contained in them.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by conebeckham »

jet.urgyen wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:21 am
FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
One interesting thing, in the original teaching, the termas, in general is indicated that one sould not change anything contained in them.
Frankly speaking, all the institutional lineages that currently exist, except, maybe for Bon-- so, Geluk, Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Jonang--are already
"mixtures" of different lineages.

Also, I would call the "original teachings" of the Nyingmapas the Kama. And it's not just the Terma traditions that say "don't change anything"---many Sarma practices discourage modifications. It's a common instruction. However, this does not mean you cannot practice sadhanas and prayers from various lineages. We all do this, in fact.

We don't "mix" practices, per se, but many Kagyu lamas will practice Kilaya daily, Cho's LuJin, Shangpa stuff esp. Chagdrukpa, along with maybe maintaining a main Kamtsang method. Even the Kamtsang Daily protector recitations come from a variety of lineages--Bernakchen is really Nyingma, Chakshipa and Chagdrukpa are Sarma, and many other protectors are supplicated, from Namcho, etc., etc.

Gyalwa Gyamtso is said to be a mix of Sarma and Nyingma lineages.

In Sakya, Kilaya is a main feature, as is Hejavra, Naro Khachoma...and there are plenty of Terma cycles practiced by Sakya lamas.

Almost all Geluk practice comes from earlier Sarma traditions.

Jonang Lamas practice a lot of "Shangpa" practices.

Etc.
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jet.urgyen
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Re: Mixing teachings/lineages advice?

Post by jet.urgyen »

conebeckham wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:12 pm
jet.urgyen wrote: Thu Jun 29, 2023 6:21 am
FieldBob wrote: Thu Jun 01, 2023 1:50 pm For every person there is a different answer.

One answer I got recently was you can attend any empowerment, transmission, or lung teaching online or in person no matter what lineage but for daily practise stick to one lineage and dont mix different practises from different lineages.

What is your view on this?
One interesting thing, in the original teaching, the termas, in general is indicated that one sould not change anything contained in them.
Frankly speaking, all the institutional lineages that currently exist, except, maybe for Bon-- so, Geluk, Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Jonang--are already
"mixtures" of different lineages.

Also, I would call the "original teachings" of the Nyingmapas the Kama. And it's not just the Terma traditions that say "don't change anything"---many Sarma practices discourage modifications. It's a common instruction. However, this does not mean you cannot practice sadhanas and prayers from various lineages. We all do this, in fact.

We don't "mix" practices, per se, but many Kagyu lamas will practice Kilaya daily, Cho's LuJin, Shangpa stuff esp. Chagdrukpa, along with maybe maintaining a main Kamtsang method. Even the Kamtsang Daily protector recitations come from a variety of lineages--Bernakchen is really Nyingma, Chakshipa and Chagdrukpa are Sarma, and many other protectors are supplicated, from Namcho, etc., etc.

Gyalwa Gyamtso is said to be a mix of Sarma and Nyingma lineages.

In Sakya, Kilaya is a main feature, as is Hejavra, Naro Khachoma...and there are plenty of Terma cycles practiced by Sakya lamas.

Almost all Geluk practice comes from earlier Sarma traditions.

Jonang Lamas practice a lot of "Shangpa" practices.

Etc.
fieldbob post reminded me the original terma teachings. i wonder if compared on how this are today they remained intact.

pretty offtopic, i confess. sorry.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
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