Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

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Dawa Ösel
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Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Dawa Ösel »

[Mod note: In order to prevent off topic discussion this topic has been split from here: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 94#p664994]


Sorry for the question, but ist Ati Guru Yoga some DC/ChNN exclusive thing? What does it mean exactly?
merilingpa
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by merilingpa »

I think one could say it belongs to the Nyingma lineage. But it is also practiced and transmitted in Kagyu.
Some might say that its a stand alone lineage but it is mostly spead in the Nyinma lineage.
Malcolm
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Malcolm »

Dawa Ösel wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:49 am [Mod note: ]In order to prevent off topic discussion this topic has been split from here: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 94#p664994


Sorry for the question, but ist Ati Guru Yoga some DC/ChNN exclusive thing? What does it mean exactly?
Yes and no. Most guru yogas related to Dzogchen are anuyiga style practices, for example, the Chetsun Nyingthig, or Guru Yoga of the White A of Norbu Rinpoche, among others. Ati Guru Yoga itself comes from the teachings of CHNN, but one can find corollaries for n other terma cycles.
jet.urgyen
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by jet.urgyen »

Dawa Ösel wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:49 am [Mod note: In order to prevent off topic discussion this topic has been split from here: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 94#p664994]


Sorry for the question, but ist Ati Guru Yoga some DC/ChNN exclusive thing?
No, it is not exclusive to DC/ChNN.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Dawa Ösel
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Dawa Ösel »

Malcolm wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:52 pm
Dawa Ösel wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:49 am [Mod note: ]In order to prevent off topic discussion this topic has been split from here: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 94#p664994


Sorry for the question, but ist Ati Guru Yoga some DC/ChNN exclusive thing? What does it mean exactly?
Yes and no. Most guru yogas related to Dzogchen are anuyiga style practices, for example, the Chetsun Nyingthig, or Guru Yoga of the White A of Norbu Rinpoche, among others. Ati Guru Yoga itself comes from the teachings of CHNN, but one can find corollaries for n other terma cycles.
Thank you
Passing By
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Passing By »

Malcolm wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:52 pm
Dawa Ösel wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:49 am [Mod note: ]In order to prevent off topic discussion this topic has been split from here: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 94#p664994


Sorry for the question, but ist Ati Guru Yoga some DC/ChNN exclusive thing? What does it mean exactly?
but one can find corollaries for n other terma cycles.
What would some examples of those be?
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Sādhaka
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Sādhaka »

Passing By wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 3:45 pmWhat would some examples of those be?

I believe that Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche taught one that is very similar.
Dawa Ösel
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Dawa Ösel »

So, Ati Guru Yoga ist just Guru Yoga in the context of Dzogchen?
Tata1
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Tata1 »

Passing By wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 3:45 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:52 pm
Dawa Ösel wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 9:49 am [Mod note: ]In order to prevent off topic discussion this topic has been split from here: https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 94#p664994


Sorry for the question, but ist Ati Guru Yoga some DC/ChNN exclusive thing? What does it mean exactly?
but one can find corollaries for n other terma cycles.
What would some examples of those be?
Chnn often refered to a practice in dudjom tersar as being identical to ati guru yoga
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Sādhaka
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Sādhaka »

Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:09 pmChnn often refered to a practice in dudjom tersar as being identical to ati guru yoga

Interesting.

I honestly don’t ever recall him even mentioning the Dudjom lineage. Of course he was aware of it, and most likely saw it as 100% legit. I probably just wasn’t paying attention when he mentioned it then.
rai
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by rai »

Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:09 pm
Passing By wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 3:45 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:52 pm

but one can find corollaries for n other terma cycles.
What would some examples of those be?
Chnn often refered to a practice in dudjom tersar as being identical to ati guru yoga
interesting, thanks for sharing!
Tata1
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Tata1 »

Sādhaka wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 pm
Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:09 pmChnn often refered to a practice in dudjom tersar as being identical to ati guru yoga

Interesting.

I honestly don’t ever recall him even mentioning the Dudjom lineage. Of course he was aware of it, and most likely saw it as 100% legit. I probably just wasn’t paying attention when he mentioned it then.
If i remember correctly elias told once that he met with dudjom rinpoche in the states
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Sādhaka
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Sādhaka »

Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:09 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 pm
Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:09 pmChnn often refered to a practice in dudjom tersar as being identical to ati guru yoga

Interesting.

I honestly don’t ever recall him even mentioning the Dudjom lineage. Of course he was aware of it, and :geek: most likely saw it as 100% legit. I probably just wasn’t paying attention when he mentioned it then.


If i remember correctly elias told once that he met with dudjom rinpoche in the states

I’m sure that he did.

He’s the Dharmaraja (per one of the Six Munis of Mahayoga if you shall) after all; the lord of bringing individuals out of the hell realms like Ksitigarbha
Last edited by Sādhaka on Mon May 29, 2023 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jet.urgyen
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by jet.urgyen »

Dawa Ösel wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 9:20 pm So, Ati Guru Yoga ist just Guru Yoga in the context of Dzogchen?
Dzogchen is the tibetan word for Ati.

Ati guru yoga is the most essential guruyoga there is, it exists only in the ati yana (yana means vehicle).

Ati yana is one of the 9 vehicles that Guru Padmasambhava taught, but it is more ancient than Guru Padmasambhava.

So yes, ati guruyoga means guruyoga in ati and exists only in ati yana. There is no other context.

In other yanas one can find the same "form", for example in the boddhisatva yana as the prajñaparamita essence, but it is not atiguruyoga.

I dare to say that even if the boddhisatvas might perceive it's importance and meditate on it, it is not exposed directly to them as it is in the atiyana, it is not explained to them. So that's why one is lucky to get explanations, it is a short cut of eons.

Idk, it is how i see it.
true dharma is inexpressible.

The bodhisattva nourishes from bodhicitta, through whatever method the Buddha has given him. Oh joy.
Passing By
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Passing By »

Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:09 pm
Passing By wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 3:45 pm
Malcolm wrote: Sat May 27, 2023 12:52 pm

but one can find corollaries for n other terma cycles.
What would some examples of those be?
Chnn often refered to a practice in dudjom tersar as being identical to ati guru yoga
Interesting, thanks
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Harimoo
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by Harimoo »

Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:09 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 pm
Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:09 pmChnn often refered to a practice in dudjom tersar as being identical to ati guru yoga

Interesting.

I honestly don’t ever recall him even mentioning the Dudjom lineage. Of course he was aware of it, and most likely saw it as 100% legit. I probably just wasn’t paying attention when he mentioned it then.
If i remember correctly elias told once that he met with dudjom rinpoche in the states
Hi,

I remember that ChNN said Dudjom Rinpoche was one of his teacher, back in Tibet.
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treehuggingoctopus
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Re: Which lineage does Ati Yoga belong?

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

Harimoo wrote: Wed May 31, 2023 11:02 am
Tata1 wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 10:09 pm
Sādhaka wrote: Mon May 29, 2023 5:14 pm


Interesting.

I honestly don’t ever recall him even mentioning the Dudjom lineage. Of course he was aware of it, and most likely saw it as 100% legit. I probably just wasn’t paying attention when he mentioned it then.
If i remember correctly elias told once that he met with dudjom rinpoche in the states
Hi,

I remember that ChNN said Dudjom Rinpoche was one of his teacher, back in Tibet.
He also received teachings from Dudjom Rinpoche in India, after he left Tibet and before he followed Tucci to Italy.

Both Dudjom Lingpa and Dudjom Rinpoche are there among the teachers represented on the walls of the Merigar gompa.
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.

Edmond Jabès
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