Mahāmegha on Bodhisattva Devadatta

Discuss and learn about the traditional Mahayana scriptures, without assuming that any one school ‘owns’ the only correct interpretation.
Post Reply
User avatar
ThreeVows
Posts: 942
Joined: Mon May 08, 2017 5:54 pm

Mahāmegha on Bodhisattva Devadatta

Post by ThreeVows »

From 84000: https://read.84000.co/translation/toh232.html

Excerpts about Devadatta:
From now on, great brahmin, without saying such things, consider the following words and no others. Devadatta, the group of six monks, and their followers are grateful to the Tathāgata. Devadatta is one who inspires supreme joy. Devadatta loves the family of the Tathāgata. Devadatta is the culmination of the Tathāgata’s activities. Devadatta is a great being who demonstrates the Tathāgata’s virtuous qualities. Devadatta, the group of six monks, and their followers completely establish tens of millions of sentient beings in meritorious behavior. Great brahmin, no sentient beings are capable of drawing the blood of a tathāgata, foe- destroyer, complete and perfect buddha. The Tathāgata’s body should be viewed as being like a tree’s shadow; you should see it as an expedient means.

Great brahmin, even trillions of māras could not divide the saṅgha. This schism within the saṅgha should be viewed as an expedient means. Devadatta and the group of six monks do not create schism among the saṅgha. Devadatta and the group of six monks represent the Śākya family. They do not conduct themselves in such a way as to be born as animals or among ordinary people. Having been born in the Śākya family and gone forth to renunciation at the feet of the Tathāgata, what need is there to say that they do not engage in such actions? The idea is unfounded. Devadatta and the group of six monks act very kindly. Devadatta does not merely wear the saffron-colored robes. Devadatta is not a famished bald- head. Devadatta and the group of six monks are bound by the pratimokṣa vows. Devadatta is not determined to do evil. Devadatta does not desire to do evil. Devadatta and the group of six monks should be known as monks representing the Tathāgata’s expedient means. All bodhisattvas play within the hell realms by means of the superknowledges. This should be seen as the domain of bodhisattvas. Devadatta will not go to the hell realms.

Great brahmin, you should rejoice in Devadatta as the bodhisattva mahāsattva named Mahākapila, who, after giving instruction, was surrounded by a group of six bodhisattvas.

The Bhagavān then replied to the bodhisattva Great Cloud Essence, “Excellent, Great Cloud Essence, excellent! So it is. Great Cloud Essence, in order to eradicate the doubts of all outsider sentient beings, you have given this excellent explanation. On the basis of the Tathāgata’s concealed speech, you have explained the domain of the Tathāgata—which is not the same as that of the śrāvakas and pratyekabuddhas—and the greatness of Devadatta’s virtuous qualities. Excellent, excellent! Great Cloud Essence.
“Whoever wants to find the wisdom beyond intellect without praying to his guru is like someone waiting for the sun to shine in a cave facing the north. He will never realize appearances and his mind to be one.”
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Mahāmegha on Bodhisattva Devadatta

Post by Malcolm »

ThreeVows wrote: Tue May 02, 2023 3:10 pm From 84000: https://read.84000.co/translation/toh232.html

Excerpts about Devadatta:
From now on, great brahmin, without saying such things, consider the following words and no others. Devadatta, the group of six monks, and their followers are grateful to the Tathāgata. Devadatta is one who inspires supreme joy. Devadatta loves the family of the Tathāgata. Devadatta is the culmination of the Tathāgata’s activities. Devadatta is a great being who demonstrates the Tathāgata’s virtuous qualities. Devadatta, the group of six monks, and their followers completely establish tens of millions of sentient beings in meritorious behavior. Great brahmin, no sentient beings are capable of drawing the blood of a tathāgata, foe- destroyer, complete and perfect buddha. The Tathāgata’s body should be viewed as being like a tree’s shadow; you should see it as an expedient means.

Great brahmin, even trillions of māras could not divide the saṅgha. This schism within the saṅgha should be viewed as an expedient means. Devadatta and the group of six monks do not create schism among the saṅgha. Devadatta and the group of six monks represent the Śākya family. They do not conduct themselves in such a way as to be born as animals or among ordinary people. Having been born in the Śākya family and gone forth to renunciation at the feet of the Tathāgata, what need is there to say that they do not engage in such actions? The idea is unfounded. Devadatta and the group of six monks act very kindly. Devadatta does not merely wear the saffron-colored robes. Devadatta is not a famished bald- head. Devadatta and the group of six monks are bound by the pratimokṣa vows. Devadatta is not determined to do evil. Devadatta does not desire to do evil. Devadatta and the group of six monks should be known as monks representing the Tathāgata’s expedient means. All bodhisattvas play within the hell realms by means of the superknowledges. This should be seen as the domain of bodhisattvas. Devadatta will not go to the hell realms.

Great brahmin, you should rejoice in Devadatta as the bodhisattva mahāsattva named Mahākapila, who, after giving instruction, was surrounded by a group of six bodhisattvas.

The Bhagavān then replied to the bodhisattva Great Cloud Essence, “Excellent, Great Cloud Essence, excellent! So it is. Great Cloud Essence, in order to eradicate the doubts of all outsider sentient beings, you have given this excellent explanation. On the basis of the Tathāgata’s concealed speech, you have explained the domain of the Tathāgata—which is not the same as that of the śrāvakas and pratyekabuddhas—and the greatness of Devadatta’s virtuous qualities. Excellent, excellent! Great Cloud Essence.
Classic Mahāyāna gaslighting. No wonder the śrāvakas were convinced Mahāyānis were insane.
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Mahāmegha on Bodhisattva Devadatta

Post by Aemilius »

The version about Devadatta in the pali texts is not the only one, see this:

"Faxian and other Chinese pilgrims who travelled to India in the early centuries of the current era recorded the continued existence of "Gotamaka" buddhists, followers of Devadatta. Gotamaka are also referred to in Pali texts of the second and fifth centuries of the current era. The followers of Devadatta are recorded to have honored all the Buddhas previous to Śākyamuni, but not Śākyamuni. According to Faxian, Xuanzang and Yijing's writings, some people practised in a similar way and with the same Books as common Buddhists, but followed the similar tapas and performed Rituals to the past three Buddhas and not Śākyamuni Buddha. Many followers of that sect listened to the lessons in the Nālandā with the others, but it is believed by many that they were not students of Devadatta. However, there are still those who say they follow Devadatta today at Bodh Gaya.

According to Andrew Skilton, modern scholarship generally agrees that the Mahāsāṃghika Vinaya is the oldest extant Buddhist Vinaya. The Mahāsāṃghika Vinaya is significant for its differing accounts from those of other schools. The Mahāsāṃghika Vinaya mentions the figure of Devadatta, but the description and attributes of this figure are entirely different from those in the vinayas of sects from the Sthavira branch. In fact, there is no overlap in the characterizations of Devadatta between the Mahāsāṃghika Vinaya and the other five extant vinayas which all come from the Sthavira branch. This has led some scholars to conclude that the story of Devadatta was a legend produced by the Sthaviras after they split from the Mahāsāṃghikas in the 4th century BCE. André Bareau has discovered that the earliest Vinaya material common to all sects simply depicts Devadatta as a Buddhist saint who wishes for the Monks to live a rigorous lifestyle."

from http://www.tibetanbuddhistencyclopedia. ... =Devadatta

The story of Devadatta is important and influental. This is from the pali or sravaka sources:

"Devadatta was the son of Suddhodana’s brother Suppabuddha and thus was the Buddha’s cousin. His name means ‘god-given.’ When the Buddha returned to Kapilavatthu for the first time after his enlightenment, several young sakyan men including Devadatta decided to become monks (Vinaya 2. 182). For some years Devadatta proved to be a good and diligent monk and in several places in the Tipitaka he is praised as such (Vinaya 2. 188). Gradually however, he came to feel that the Buddha was drifting too far from traditional ascetic practices and a good number of monks agreed with him. Confronting the Buddha on this issue, Devadatta insisted that he make several practices compulsory for all monks - (1) that they should live only in the forest, (2) that they never accept invitations to eat at devotees homes but live only by begging, (3) that they wear only rag robes, (4) that they live in the open not in a monastery, and (5) that vegetarianism be compulsory, instead of the 3 fold rule. Devadatta’s demands were refused and so he and his supporters separated from the Buddha and his disciples. This was the greatest crisis the Buddha had to face during his forty-year ministry. The Vinaya even claims that Devadatta actually tried to murder the Buddha on two occasions, although it is not certain whether this is true or just a later attempt to make him look as bad as possible (Vin.II,190-94). There is no more information about Devadatta in the Tipitaka itself, but tradition says his supporters eventually abandoned him and returned to the Buddha and that he later died discredited and alone.

Some teachers have used the list of Devadatta and the Buddha's refusal of it to point out that the Buddha did not require or even recommend vegetarianism. But what these teachers fail to recognize is the Buddha allowed monks to follow the rules or suggestions by Devadatta, if they wanted to. It was not forbidden to follow the list, if a monk or nun wanted to. The refusal of the Buddha to accept the complete list also does not mean that he disagreed with everything in the list.

The Buddha praised Kassapa doing some ascetic practices, some of them from the list of Devadatta (Samyutta Nikaya 16.5) which shows that the Buddha was not opposed to everything in the list. In another passage the Buddha said:

'I do not say householder, that all asceticism should be practiced; nor do I say of all asceticism that it should not be practiced' (Anguttara Nikaya 10.94)."
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Post Reply

Return to “Sūtra Studies”