6 Indriyas

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Vajrasambhava
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6 Indriyas

Post by Vajrasambhava »

Are the 6 coarse consciousnesses governed by brain?

I.e during general anesthesia, the five senses (governed by brain) are temporarily shut down, that's why under this condition, one cannot see, hear, taste, smell and feel (touch). But what about thinking? Why we cannot think in this state?
Does this mean the 6th consciousness is governed by brain?
If the answer is "no" then how anesthesia can influence a non-material apparatus?
Thanks
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: 6 Indriyas

Post by Kim O'Hara »

I think the answer is "yes".

But I think that "governed" is not quite the right word. It might be better to think of the coarse consciousnesses being dependent on the brain. That is, the brain is a processing centre, not a controller.

But the relationship between the physical brain, and the consciousness which depends on it, is a mystery to medical science. No-one has ever been able to say why all those electrical signals should "feel like" anything at all.

:namaste:
Kim
Vajrasambhava
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Re: 6 Indriyas

Post by Vajrasambhava »

Do you think the 6th consciousness too is dependent on the brain?
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Astus
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Re: 6 Indriyas

Post by Astus »

Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 11:32 amBut what about thinking? Why we cannot think in this state?
Does this mean the 6th consciousness is governed by brain?
If the answer is "no" then how anesthesia can influence a non-material apparatus?
The six types of consciousness are not things that wait around to be used but events of conscious awareness of something. If one closes one's eyes there is no eye-consciousness to talk about, because of the lack of any visual object. If there is a sudden loud noise there is no conscious thinking, nor is there much of it during powerful sensory input (pain/pleasure), although the fact that one is aware of a particular sensory experience means some level of consciousness is there, just not necessarily the speculative kind. Anyhow, this problem of the relationship between body and mind is based on a different view than what is taught by the Buddha, hence he rejected to take part in the debate whether the body and the soul are identical or separate, and even called such views a hindrance to liberation.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: 6 Indriyas

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Vajrasambhava wrote: Sat May 20, 2023 11:32 am Are the 6 coarse consciousnesses governed by brain?

I.e during general anesthesia, the five senses (governed by brain) are temporarily shut down, that's why under this condition, one cannot see, hear, taste, smell and feel (touch). But what about thinking? Why we cannot think in this state?
Does this mean the 6th consciousness is governed by brain?
If the answer is "no" then how anesthesia can influence a non-material apparatus?
Thanks
Sometimes people can think in this state. I have been under general anesthesia with my senses almost completely shut down (had a few tactile sensations) and with (mostly) full awareness.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Aemilius
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Re: 6 Indriyas

Post by Aemilius »

'Our miracle baby was born without a brain. Now he’s a healthy 6-year-old’

"His parents were told to terminate five times, but they refused."

Image

"When Shelley Wall was pregnant with Noah, doctors were certain he wouldn’t survive. Scans showed the baby boy’s brain wasn’t developing.
In fact, only two percent of a normal brain was showing in the scans, and he also had spina bifida.
Doctors repeatedly asked Shelley and her husband Rob if they wanted to terminate the pregnancy, saying that the child would never walk, talk, eat, see or hear. But the parents refused.
I think possibly if younger people were offered that choice, they may have felt pressured into taking it,” Rob said on Good Morning Britain.
Because we’re older parents, we know our own minds and we’re positive people. We wanted to give Noah the chance of life.”

https://www.kidspot.com.au/news/our-mir ... 989c80a281

According to Ajahn Brahmavamso there have been several cases of persons with this defect in the 1900's. He tells in his lectures of a case in which the person with no brain, or with minimal brain, became a university student in mathematics. According to Brahamavamso this is possible because brain does not equal mind. Mind has a rather strong existence in his view. Most certainly there must be differences between people in this respect.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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