To those who wish to remain in rigpa 24/7, that instant of entering into deep sleep (before the dreams arise) presents the greatest obstacle.
An once in a decade visit to a dentist comes a close second though.
To those who wish to remain in rigpa 24/7, that instant of entering into deep sleep (before the dreams arise) presents the greatest obstacle.
You could please tell me what a relationship there is between deep sleepy and rigpa. ?
There are instructions for practice during sleep. However these are generally oral instructions that you would have had to have received.Bapho wrote: ↑Mon May 22, 2023 2:47 amYou could please tell me what a relationship there is between deep sleepy and rigpa. ?
I add to the Kai Lord's comment. The deep sleep occurs before (that Kai indicated) and after the dream phase (REM). The cycle is repeated 4 or 5 times per night. In the last cycles it is easier to remember dreams or have lucid dreams because the non Rem phase is less deep.
So, it seems like he is distinguishing different capacities of practitioners, no?madhusudan wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 12:24 am TLDR: He claims that there are extremely rare genius-level practitioners who might not need to "achieve" shamatha, but for everyone else it is necessary.
The definition seems like a shifting landscape.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:44 am If this is going to continue, can we define “achieve shamatha” precisely?
It means a state of equipoise characterized by four or five distinct mental,factors.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:44 am If this is going to continue, can we define “achieve shamatha” precisely?
Does this mean the first dhyāna is “achieving śamatha?”Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 3:18 amIt means a state of equipoise characterized by four or five distinct mental,factors.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:44 am If this is going to continue, can we define “achieve shamatha” precisely?
This is also what I was wondering.krodha wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:05 amDoes this mean the first dhyāna is “achieving śamatha?”Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 3:18 amIt means a state of equipoise characterized by four or five distinct mental,factors.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:44 am If this is going to continue, can we define “achieve shamatha” precisely?
That’s what BAW means when he says “achieving śamatha”. Although sometimes he adds that “access concentration”, is enough.krodha wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:05 amDoes this mean the first dhyāna is “achieving śamatha?”Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 3:18 amIt means a state of equipoise characterized by four or five distinct mental,factors.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:44 am If this is going to continue, can we define “achieve shamatha” precisely?
Two interesting points to me.madhusudan wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 12:24 am Here is a new clip of BAW addressing this issue for those who want to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak:
TLDR: He claims that there are extremely rare genius-level practitioners who might not need to "achieve" shamatha, but for everyone else it is necessary. This, he says, is what he was taught by GR from multiple texts as well as from other Lamas, though he also mentions one without naming names who did not include shamatha in his Dzogchen.
The equipoise of an ārya that occurs upon realizing emptiness is the “state of trekchö,” so you’re right, his comment does not make sense.dharmafootsteps wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 6:34 amHe mentions “realizing emptiness” a few times, and mentions doing so before beginning trekcho. I don’t know how he defines realizing emptiness, but as I understand it this would be a much bigger deal than the insistence on achieving śamatha. It would make Dzogchen the practice of āryas only.madhusudan wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 12:24 am Here is a new clip of BAW addressing this issue for those who want to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak:
TLDR: He claims that there are extremely rare genius-level practitioners who might not need to "achieve" shamatha, but for everyone else it is necessary. This, he says, is what he was taught by GR from multiple texts as well as from other Lamas, though he also mentions one without naming names who did not include shamatha in his Dzogchen.
Yes.krodha wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 5:05 amDoes this mean the first dhyāna is “achieving śamatha?”Malcolm wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 3:18 amIt means a state of equipoise characterized by four or five distinct mental,factors.Johnny Dangerous wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 1:44 am If this is going to continue, can we define “achieve shamatha” precisely?
And of course this is why his teaching of Dzogchen is totally in the wrong direction.dharmafootsteps wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 6:34 am
2) He mentions “realizing emptiness” a few times, and mentions doing so before beginning trekcho. I don’t know how he defines realizing emptiness, but as I understand it this would be a much bigger deal than the insistence on achieving śamatha. It would make Dzogchen the practice of āryas only.
What he said would actually make sense if you substitute "Dzogchen" with "special insight meditation".madhusudan wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 12:24 am Here is a new clip of BAW addressing this issue for those who want to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak:
TLDR: He claims that there are extremely rare genius-level practitioners who might not need to "achieve" shamatha, but for everyone else it is necessary. This, he says, is what he was taught by GR from multiple texts as well as from other Lamas, though he also mentions one without naming names who did not include shamatha in his Dzogchen.
Malcolm wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2015 2:45 amA perfect śamatha is nothing more than the first dhyāna, attended by five mental factors: vitarka, vicara, prithi, sukha and ekagraha. This is a universal definition.passel wrote:
Bottom line, meditation lineages have house styles and house interpretations of received texts, and they differ from one another. You can't assume that one yogi's 5th stage of Shamatha is the same as another yogi's 5th stage of Shamatha, or even that they mean the same thing by Shamatha.
The idea that it takes a year to develop this experience is ridiculous. If you understand what you are doing, you can develop this experience in as little as a single afternoon.
Since the mental factors of vitarka and vicara drop off above the first dhyāna, when one 's motivation is to engage in vipaśyāna, it is not appropriate to cultivate anything more than this.
krodha wrote: ↑Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:58 pm And according to Ontrul Tenpa'i Wangchuk [Per Lama Tony]: "The Adzom Drukpa camp puts the disciples to work on this [śamatha, etc.] for a period of four to five years. And Guru Mipham said:
'This is it! It might be causal ālaya, nevertheless, if you do not do it this way, authentic wisdom will not be born in your mindstream.'
Meaning that this is the method for placement of the mind! This method must be used and then, because of it, wisdom that is the result of the method can be realized."
Sādhaka wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2023 6:43 pm
My Lama has said exactly that^. Yet he has also said that Shamatha is not Dzogchen proper. Both can be true.
ChNNR has also said that some of his students who weren’t ‘getting it’ via Upadesha teachings, were able to have a proper base after they started practicing Shamatha according to Semde’s Four Yogas