Upcoming Translations

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ManiThePainter
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by ManiThePainter »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:29 am other than his decision to merge dharmata and tathata into a single term.
I’ve been thinking about this recently. What is the significance of translating them all as “reality”? Does it alter the meaning of the text based on the context?
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Patacelsus
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Patacelsus »

ManiThePainter wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:54 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:29 am other than his decision to merge dharmata and tathata into a single term.
I’ve been thinking about this recently. What is the significance of translating them all as “reality”? Does it alter the meaning of the text based on the context?
One is naked reality and one is suchness. They seemed to me to be speaking to the nature of reality in general and the nature of a specific thing in particular. But that is just my own sense of it, it could be that they are technical terms in tantra and translating them both that way was just sloppy. I'm guessing someone with more knowledge will answer eventually. I'm looking forward to it.
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Malcolm »

Patacelsus wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:00 pm
ManiThePainter wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:54 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 2:29 am other than his decision to merge dharmata and tathata into a single term.
I’ve been thinking about this recently. What is the significance of translating them all as “reality”? Does it alter the meaning of the text based on the context?
One is naked reality and one is suchness. They seemed to me to be speaking to the nature of reality in general and the nature of a specific thing in particular. But that is just my own sense of it, it could be that they are technical terms in tantra and translating them both that way was just sloppy. I'm guessing someone with more knowledge will answer eventually. I'm looking forward to it.
Dharmatā is a complicated technical term, used in many contexts. It is usually contrasted with dharmin. In short, in the context it is used in Buddhapalita is illustrated in one case in this way. Take this passage, which is a very minor point, but I would do it differently:

།དེ་བཞིན་དུ་གཞན་ནས་ཀྱང་འདུས་བྱས་དེ་ནི་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཀྱང་ཡིན། དེ་ནི་རབ་ཏུ་འཇིག་པའི་ཆོས་ཀྱང་ཡིན་ནོ་ཞེས་འདུ་བྱེད་ཐམས་ཅད་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཅན་ཡིན་
པར་གསུངས་སོ། །དེའི་ཕྱིར་འདུ་བྱེད་ཐམས་ཅད་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཉིད་དེས། ཐམས་ཅད་བརྫུན་པ་ཉིད་ཡིན་ཏེ།

Coughlin (pg. 174, line 3-6) has:

Furthermore, he also declared in another [sūtra]:

Conditioned states are also deceptive phenomena. They are also phenomena that fully distintegrate.

This states that all formations are deceptive phenomena. Since all formations are deceptive phenomena, therefore, all of them are false.


I would have rendered this passage in this way:

In the same way, elsewhere [he stated] that all formations are deceptive phenomena (dharmin), "The compounded are also deceptive phenomena (dharma), and they are also phenomena that totally perish." Therefore, since all formations have deceptive natures (dharmatā), all are false.

Otherwise, his translation is just fine.
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Patacelsus
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Patacelsus »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:12 pm
Patacelsus wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 9:00 pm
ManiThePainter wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 6:54 am

I’ve been thinking about this recently. What is the significance of translating them all as “reality”? Does it alter the meaning of the text based on the context?
One is naked reality and one is suchness. They seemed to me to be speaking to the nature of reality in general and the nature of a specific thing in particular. But that is just my own sense of it, it could be that they are technical terms in tantra and translating them both that way was just sloppy. I'm guessing someone with more knowledge will answer eventually. I'm looking forward to it.
Dharmatā is a complicated technical term, used in many contexts. It is usually contrasted with dharmin. In short, in the context it is used in Buddhapalita is illustrated in one case in this way. Take this passage, which is a very minor point, but I would do it differently:

།དེ་བཞིན་དུ་གཞན་ནས་ཀྱང་འདུས་བྱས་དེ་ནི་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཀྱང་ཡིན། དེ་ནི་རབ་ཏུ་འཇིག་པའི་ཆོས་ཀྱང་ཡིན་ནོ་ཞེས་འདུ་བྱེད་ཐམས་ཅད་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཅན་ཡིན་
པར་གསུངས་སོ། །དེའི་ཕྱིར་འདུ་བྱེད་ཐམས་ཅད་སླུ་བའི་ཆོས་ཉིད་དེས། ཐམས་ཅད་བརྫུན་པ་ཉིད་ཡིན་ཏེ།

Coughlin (pg. 174, line 3-6) has:

Furthermore, he also declared in another [sūtra]:

Conditioned states are also deceptive phenomena. They are also phenomena that fully distintegrate.

This states that all formations are deceptive phenomena. Since all formations are deceptive phenomena, therefore, all of them are false.


I would have rendered this passage in this way:

In the same way, elsewhere [he stated] that all formations are deceptive phenomena (dharmin), "The compounded are also deceptive phenomena (dharma), and they are also phenomena that totally perish." Therefore, since all formations have deceptive natures (dharmatā), all are false.

Otherwise, his translation is just fine.
AHA! Thank you.
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Svalaksana
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Svalaksana »

Great news! Certainly there will be people interested in this upcomig book from Oxford University Press:

Image
Translated with Commentary by Charles Goodman

-Includes new translations of texts that were most recently translated in 1937

-Introduces Santaraksita and Kamalasila's methods of reasoning for clearer background information

-Contextualizes South Asian Buddhism intellectually, culturally, and historically
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Norwegian »

Svalaksana wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:37 am Great news! Certainly there will be people interested in this upcomig book from Oxford University Press:

Image
Translated with Commentary by Charles Goodman

-Includes new translations of texts that were most recently translated in 1937

-Introduces Santaraksita and Kamalasila's methods of reasoning for clearer background information

-Contextualizes South Asian Buddhism intellectually, culturally, and historically
"Selected" implies that it's not a complete translation. It clocks in at just under 300 pages. Jha's old translation is almost 1600 pages.
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Svalaksana »

Norwegian wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 12:43 am "Selected" implies that it's not a complete translation. It clocks in at just under 300 pages. Jha's old translation is almost 1600 pages.
I am well aware of that. However Jha's translation is not adequate for all students of the Dharma, given the difficulty and extension of the text, but the fact that it is an older version, makes it more difficult to obtain and expensive as well.

OUP's edition might be an appeasing option for those willing to acquaint themselves with the book's main philosophic ideas and points, and it is likely that it will get a paperback version at some point that will be more affordable even.
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Svalaksana »

Coming out this August, it might be interesting to some over here:

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Discover a clear and accessible translation with commentary on key parts of Khedrup Jé's Clearing Mental Darkness.

Composed at the request of His Holiness the Dalai Lama, this translation with commentary on key parts of Khedrup Jé's Clearing Mental Darkness: An Ornament of Dharmakirti's "Seven Treatises on Valid Cognition" is intended for all levels of understanding. You'll learn how a mind realizes its object, which types of consciousness realize their objects, and when a consciousness is considered to be valid in the sense of realizing its object. Having explained valid cognizers, or direct perceivers, which are essential to understanding the four noble truths, Khedrup Jé goes on to brilliantly elucidate this essential teaching of the Buddha and offers a lucid presentation of how to progress on the spiritual paths of liberation and enlightenment, including how to generate yogic perception directly realizing selflessness. With this, one develops an unmistaken realization of the fundamental reality of selflessness of persons and phenomena, which eliminates ignorance, the root cause of all mental afflictions and samsaric suffering.
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Svalaksana
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Svalaksana »

This ought to interest some, since as far as I know, only the letters of Dahui Pujue have been translated to English.

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Treasury of the Eye of True Teaching (Chinese Zhengfayanzang) stands as among the greatest classics of Chan (Chinese Zen) Buddhism, combining speeches, stories, dialogues, poems, and commentaries that the influential master Dahui (1089-1163) extracted from Chan lore. Compiled by Dahui's students during Song Dynasty China, this work is replete with the enigmatic, paradoxical wisdom for which Zen Buddhism is so well known.
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Svalaksana
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Svalaksana »

Two exciting upcoming publications, for those interested in Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. Shame about the prices, but hopefully a softcover version will be available as well in a near future:

Image
Wisdom within Words is the first complete bilingual edition and annotated translation of the poetry collection entitled Kuchugen, which features 150 Chinese-style verses (kanshi) written by Dōgen Zenji (1200-1253), founder of the Soto Zen sect in early medieval Japan, and compiled in the eighteenth century by Menzan Zuiho. These poems are essential in highlighting several key aspects of Dōgen's manner of thinking and process of writing creatively while transmitting the Chan/Zen tradition from China to Japan in the first half of the thirteenth century.
-

Image
This book presents an English translation of the Samten Migdron (Lamp for the Eye of Contemplation) by Nubchen Sangye Yeshe, a seminal 10th-century Tibetan Buddhist work on contemplation. This treatise is one of the most important sources for the study of the various meditative currents that were transmitted to Tibet from India and China during the early dissemination of Buddhism in Tibet. Written from the vantage point of the Great Completeness (Dzogchen) and its vehicle of effortless spontaneity, it discusses, in the manner of a doxography, both sutra-based-including Chan-and tantric approaches to meditation.
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Svalaksana
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Svalaksana »

Some good news for those keen on Dharmakirti:

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An illuminating gateway to Indian philosophy and its explication in Tibet.

Among the many works produced in the rich philosophical tradition of India's classical age, few have had more impact than Dharmakirti's Commentary on Valid Cognition (Pramanavarttika). Composed in India in the seventh century, it became the cornerstone for the study of logic and epistemology in the Tibetan Buddhist tradition.

An important addition to any collection for the Sakya practitioner, Light of Samantabhadra translates the work of one of the premier scholars of the Sakya school, Gorampa Sonam Sengé (1429-89). Gorampa here illuminates the first two chapters of Dharmakirti's treatise, those on using inference to enlighten oneself (svarthanumana) and on establishing valid cognition (pramanasiddhi), both to determine the authority of the Buddha as a valid teacher and to eliminate the cognitive obstacles to awakening. The root text is composed in compact verses, and these are translated here along with Gorampa's word-by-word commentary that reveals their often-veiled meanings. These chapters explore key issues in the philosophy of language and the nature of conventional designation, the way to employ sound reasoning, the proof of past and future lives, and the way to eliminate the view of self. In the skilled hands of translator Gavin Kilty, these insights are made accessible to contemporary readers.
It is still not the full Pramanavarttika, but this ought to keep the reader occupied until a full translation of the work comes around. And it's a Gorampa commentary, which is highly seductive by itself!
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ManiThePainter
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by ManiThePainter »

It looks quite interesting.

Still, I don't understand why the root texts or fundamental commentaries are continually lagging behind "newer" commentaries or partial translations.

I saw that Jan Westerhoff has a new translation of Candrakirti's Introduction to the Middle Way coming out soon and yet we still do not have Candrakirti's own auto-commentary fully translated into English.

I get that translation is an arduous job and that there is pressure to publish but it seems to me that we would all benefit from having the core material available before we start adding additional commentaries, clarifications and so on.
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Svalaksana
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Svalaksana »

ManiThePainter wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 7:25 pm It looks quite interesting.

Still, I don't understand why the root texts or fundamental commentaries are continually lagging behind "newer" commentaries or partial translations.

I saw that Jan Westerhoff has a new translation of Candrakirti's Introduction to the Middle Way coming out soon and yet we still do not have Candrakirti's own auto-commentary fully translated into English.

I get that translation is an arduous job and that there is pressure to publish but it seems to me that we would all benefit from having the core material available before we start adding additional commentaries, clarifications and so on.
Hey Mani, I wholeheartedly agree with you. Personally, I'd much rather have the core texts before heading into commentarial territory, but as you said, more often than not we have to settle with the inverse. Hopefully more core texts will be translated in a near future, Candrakirti, Dharmakirti and Dignaga, to cite a few, could definitely benefit with having more of their works translated and made affordable.

Regarding Jan Westerhoff's upcoming book, are you sure it's a translation of Candrakirti's text? The publication I assume you mention is the one belonging to the Oxford Guides to Philosophy Series and to my understanding the books belonging to the series are guides that do not necessarily translate the whole text they refer to. For example, the guide to Spinoza's Ethics says in the description that:
it includes an introduction designed to supply first time readers with enough background to study the text productively. He then devotes a chapter to each of the Ethics' five parts: on God, mind, the affects or emotions, human bondage, and human freedom. The guide focuses on one manageable part of Spinoza's dense argument at a time, pausing frequently to raise and consider questions for further research.
To what level Westerhoff's publication follows a similar structure, I do not know. Hopefully it will present the entire Introduction to the Middle Way though.
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Archie2009
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Archie2009 »

Svalaksana wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:05 amTo what level Westerhoff's publication follows a similar structure, I do not know. Hopefully it will present the entire Introduction to the Middle Way though.
The currently available info at oup . com isn't very helpful or particularly hopeful.
Table of Contents

Structural outline of the text
Introduction
Commentary
Bibliography
Synopsis
This Oxford Guide is for the philosophically interested student or scholar reading the Introduction to the Middle Way. Westerhoff's commentary focuses on the philosophical content of the text, using Candrakīrti's auto-commentary as the main explicatory resource.
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Archie2009
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by Archie2009 »

How long exactly is the Madhyamakāvatāra compared to the Vaidalyaprakaraṇa? Westerhoff translates the latter and adds his own commentary & introduction in Crushing the Categories in about 320 pages. The new book is supposed to be 304 pages.
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by curtstein »

Svalaksana wrote: Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:08 am Two exciting upcoming publications, for those interested in Zen and Tibetan Buddhism. Shame about the prices, but hopefully a softcover version will be available as well in a near future:

Image
Wisdom within Words is the first complete bilingual edition and annotated translation of the poetry collection entitled Kuchugen, which features 150 Chinese-style verses (kanshi) written by Dōgen Zenji (1200-1253), founder of the Soto Zen sect in early medieval Japan, and compiled in the eighteenth century by Menzan Zuiho. These poems are essential in highlighting several key aspects of Dōgen's manner of thinking and process of writing creatively while transmitting the Chan/Zen tradition from China to Japan in the first half of the thirteenth century.
-

Image
This book presents an English translation of the Samten Migdron (Lamp for the Eye of Contemplation) by Nubchen Sangye Yeshe, a seminal 10th-century Tibetan Buddhist work on contemplation. This treatise is one of the most important sources for the study of the various meditative currents that were transmitted to Tibet from India and China during the early dissemination of Buddhism in Tibet. Written from the vantage point of the Great Completeness (Dzogchen) and its vehicle of effortless spontaneity, it discusses, in the manner of a doxography, both sutra-based-including Chan-and tantric approaches to meditation.
It's kind of amusing that they use the phrase "Dogen's Chinese-Style Poetry" instead of just "Dogen's Chinese Poems". Almost everything that Dogen wrote was in Chinese, with some notable exceptions. This was true to such an extent that Keizan went to the trouble to translate much of Dogen's Chinese writings into Japanese, so that Japanese people who had not been "classically" educated (especially women) would have access to Dogen's writings. In fact, almost everything that every Zen teacher in Japan, Korea, and Vietnam ever wrote, up until very recent times, was in Chinese.
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KamakhyaDev
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Re: Upcoming Translations

Post by KamakhyaDev »

"Illuminating the Intent : An Exposition of Candrakirti's Entering the Middle Way from Je Tsongkhapa, by Thupten Jinpa Langri"

Oooooh! How Exciting!!!!
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