How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

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Jhana4
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How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by Jhana4 »

Hello,

I am asking this question here as I realize there are many types of Buddhism, some very different from each other.

How important is the swastika to Buddhism?

Is it as important as the crucifix to Christians and the star of David to Jews?

If the swastika was missing from a Buddhist temple would it be a minor or a major issue?

If a Buddhist temple in a foriegn country was told that they could not display a swastika would it be seen as a deeply offensive issue or a simple request?

Thanks.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

It’s not so important that it should be used at the expense of causing stress, anxiety, or misunderstanding, which it does to many people in Europe and America. There was a guy a few years ago, I think in Texas or Arizona, who was a Buddhist or who regarded himself as such, who sort of took it upon himself to reform the reputation of the swastika in the west. So he would drive around in a car that had swastikas pasted to it. All he accomplished was to piss people off and give Buddhism a bad name.

People only know what they have learned about whether a symbol represents something good or bad. In Taiwan, you see them all over the place. If a restaurant has a swastika on the sign, it serves vegetarian food.

Very few people look at crucifixes and ask Christians why they glorify a Roman torture device.
Last edited by PadmaVonSamba on Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by narhwal90 »

Its unknown and irrelevant in the traditions I practice.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Jhana4 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:48 pm Hello,

I am asking this question here as I realize there are many types of Buddhism, some very different from each other.

How important is the swastika to Buddhism?

Is it as important as the crucifix to Christians and the star of David to Jews?

If the swastika was missing from a Buddhist temple would it be a minor or a major issue?

If a Buddhist temple in a foriegn country was told that they could not display a swastika would it be seen as a deeply offensive issue or a simple request?

Thanks.
There are actual instances of temples using other symbols to avoid upset. Buddhism has a number of symbols, the swastika is important but not somehow necessary.

I think the Dharma Cakra - Dharma Wheel is probably the most universal symbol.
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KeithA
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by KeithA »

Jhana4 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 5:48 pm Hello,

I am asking this question here as I realize there are many types of Buddhism, some very different from each other.

How important is the swastika to Buddhism?

Is it as important as the crucifix to Christians and the star of David to Jews?

If the swastika was missing from a Buddhist temple would it be a minor or a major issue?

If a Buddhist temple in a foriegn country was told that they could not display a swastika would it be seen as a deeply offensive issue or a simple request?

Thanks.
It's pretty prevalent in some monasteries in Korea, but I wouldn't say it is anywhere close to the importance of the two Judeo-Christian examples you cited. The manja is actually facing the other way, and isn't slanted, like Hitler's swatstika.

To be honest, I think displaying one in a temple in a Western country would be asking for trouble. Especially for something that isn't that important to the tradition.

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Last edited by KeithA on Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

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narhwal90 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:33 pm Its unknown and irrelevant in the traditions I practice.
I’d double check that, there are Buddha rupas in Japan with Swastikas on their chest, and in fact one of the stories I remember is Japanese authorities needing to use a different symbol than a Swastika to mark temples on a map.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by justsit »

If I remember correctly, there are two orientations for swastikas, right-turning and left-turning. Buddhism uses the right turning one, Nazis used the left.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by Norwegian »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:06 pm
narhwal90 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:33 pm Its unknown and irrelevant in the traditions I practice.
I’d double check that, there are Buddha rupas in Japan with Swastikas on their chest, and in fact one of the stories I remember is Japanese authorities needing to use a different symbol than a Swastika to mark temples on a map.
Not "needing to" per se, but it was suggested a number of years ago by some, that they should change the swastika to a pagoda, so as to not offend sensitive foreigners, before the Olympic games took place. The idea got a lot of backlash in Japan by Japanese people who did not appreciate having to change very old symbols, and were against it. The "manji" they argued, is not the same as the Nazi Hakenkreuz. As far as I know, no change has taken place as one can still see it on maps online and offline, and of course on buildings and temples. And change like this would require a lot of Japanese bureaucracy to turn its gears and I simply don't see how they would care enough to do that.

The swastika is also present in Tibetan Buddhism and in particular Bön. And you can see it in Tibetan Buddhism usually on brocades put on temple thrones.
justsit wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:47 pm If I remember correctly, there are two orientations for swastikas, right-turning and left-turning. Buddhism uses the right turning one, Nazis used the left.
The primary distinction is that the Hakenkreuz is tilted 45 degrees.

In Buddhism you will find both variants: 卐 or 卍. But not tilted 45 degrees like the Nazis did.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by justsit »

Thanks, Norwegian. Couldn't exactly remember the difference.

There was a big uproar over a NYT crossword puzzle published last December on the first night of Hanukkah. Quite a few readers interpreted the grid as a swastika. If you try to superimpose a swastika on the image, though, it doesn't fit, but that didn't quiet very many of the readers.

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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by DNS »

It's not that important in Buddhism. We mostly use the dharmacakra, 8 pointed wheel, statues of Buddha, etc.

I never like the swastika (Jewish-ethnicity), but after I went to India and Nepal I understand better that it has nothing to do with Nazism in a Dharmic setting. I knew that before too, but still didn't like seeing it, but now have no issue with it. In India there are swastikas everywhere, on the temples, in the taxis, on the buses, trains. It's mostly the Hindus and Jains who use it. It's used as a religious symbol and simply for good luck.

I would still not wear one as a pendant or anything like that, especially with my light colored skin and bald head. :tongue:
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by Vasana »

justsit wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 8:14 pm crossword puzzle published last December on the first night of Hanukkah. Quite a few readers interpreted the grid as a swastika. If you try to superimpose a swastika on the image, though, it doesn't fit, but that didn't quiet very many of the readers.

Image
As a motif used deceoratively in patterns, often repeated or interlocked in one or 4 directions, you could still say the symbol is present there for sure. The fact that it was used on the first day of Hanukkah in NY, does seem a little peculiar. Unless they looked at the people who made it and approved it, it would be difficult to know if there was an underlining intention .
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by Kim O'Hara »

justsit wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:47 pm If I remember correctly, there are two orientations for swastikas, right-turning and left-turning. Buddhism uses the right turning one, Nazis used the left.
That's correct, but most people won't notice the difference unless it is explained to them, by which time it has already caused confusion and offence.
To me that means a big public one is a bad idea, just as a matter of public relations, but any within the temple are fine.

Incidentally, some Australian states have banned the swastika as part of their crack-down on hate speech in general and neo-Nazi groups in particular, but I don't know whether their definition of the symbol mentions orientation at all.

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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by narhwal90 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:06 pm
narhwal90 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:33 pm Its unknown and irrelevant in the traditions I practice.
I’d double check that, there are Buddha rupas in Japan with Swastikas on their chest, and in fact one of the stories I remember is Japanese authorities needing to use a different symbol than a Swastika to mark temples on a map.

I'm sure there are, but not noticably in the tradiotions I practice. Not interested in cultural uses of the symbol personally.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by justsit »

Vasana wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:53 pm...
As a motif used deceoratively in patterns, often repeated or interlocked in one or 4 directions, you could still say the symbol is present there for sure. The fact that it was used on the first day of Hanukkah in NY, does seem a little peculiar. Unless they looked at the people who made it and approved it, it would be difficult to know if there was an underlining intention .
Agree, it's a bit odd. Due to years of Sulzberger ownership and past content, the NYT has generally been considered to be a "Jewish newspaper." Apparently that is no longer the case.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by Genjo Conan »

FWIW, while it's true that the swastika that appeared on the Nazi flag was tilted at a 45-degree angle with the arms facing right, there are many examples of Nazi iconography where the swastika wasn't tilted, or where the arms faced left. For example, the swastikas that decorated the tops of buildings (e.g., the Reichstag or the Nuremburg Rally Ground) tended to be straight up and down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po6T-XPVOHM

That the Nazis appropriated an ancient symbol doesn't cause me to think the ancient symbol should be writ out of history or usage, but I think the "the Nazis only did it this way, so if we do it this other way we're not tainted by association" apologetics are flawed for the simple reason that the Nazis were all over the place.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

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It’s not important. They are certainly present in Asia but still not important. People may be offended by a request to remove them but that does not necessarily make them important. People are offended by all kinds of unimportant things.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

Post by conebeckham »

I think it would be fun to tell the Neo Nazi's they've been displaying and carrying around Buddhist Good Luck symbols.


Seriously, in my perfect world we all could take the swastika back---I am reminded of Dan Savage decades ago re-claiming the word "fag." But It's a dream, and I understand and sympathize with those who see it as a symbol of one of the low points in our collective Human history.
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Re: How important is the Swastika to Buddhism?

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conebeckham wrote: Tue Mar 21, 2023 4:25 pm I think it would be fun to tell the Neo Nazi's they've been displaying and carrying around Buddhist Good Luck symbols.


Seriously, in my perfect world we all could take the swastika back---I am reminded of Dan Savage decades ago re-claiming the word "fag." But It's a dream, and I understand and sympathize with those who see it as a symbol of one of the low points in our collective Human history.
Same, it’s personally an important symbol to me, but I get why the best approach is to simply not use it most of the time. People are all different in this regard though, my wife is Jewish and grew up with a pretty large helping of awareness of the Holocaust, etc., she recently bought me a Buddha rupa with a swastika on it. She has been around Buddhism enough to understand well that it’s not the same thing. Most people are never gonna hit that point though, and it’s probably unrealistic for us to expect it.

It’s sad that the symbol is indefinitely tainted, but that’s the reality. It is more important to publicly respect the trauma of the Holocaust, etc. than it is to be able to use a Swastika whenever we want.
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