Question: Reincarnation with years of break

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Malcolm
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by Malcolm »

Nosta wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:16 pm
But if these children were in such a place in between, why they remember only the previous life as humans?
Simple: in a human body, you are going to mainly recall human experiences. To use an analogy, it is a well-known phenomena that things people do when they are intoxicated are often forgotten until they are intoxicated again.
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Sādhaka
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by Sādhaka »

Vasana wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 9:10 am The afterlife /bardo experience can sometimes occur for years rather than the usual account of days or weeks.

If so, then I think that may account for ghost sightings that people report; as in ghosts from the 1800's and whatnot appearing in recent times.

Now kind of irrelevant to the Bardo-lasting-years phenomena—but still related—I had a friend whose uncle was an staunch atheist and "science" guy, and shortly after his father passed away—as in a couple days—he and his sister and maybe one other person, were sitting on the back porch one day, and his recently-deceased father visited them (or his 'astral' or mental body), and the said uncle who didn't believe in such things was so freaked out that he went in his room and wouldn't come out for like a full 24 hours or longer.
Last edited by Sādhaka on Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:28 pm
Nosta wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 1:16 pm
But if these children were in such a place in between, why they remember only the previous life as humans?
Simple: in a human body, you are going to mainly recall human experiences. To use an analogy, it is a well-known phenomena that things people do when they are intoxicated are often forgotten until they are intoxicated again.
This.

Relatedly, if we sort through all of the images, thoughts etc. regularly going through the flow of the mind stream there are all kinds of weird, difficult to characterize things. Precisely because context of everything is based on the present lifetime for most of us, people usually assume these thoughts are just nonsense.

When I examine these sorts of experiences from a multiple lifetimes Buddhist POV, they take on a greater sense of coherence. So in fact, it’s likely many people are walking around with memories from all kinds of places, but the strong context of this lifetime and body creates a sort of tunnel vision where they are mostly Ignored.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

When you are dead, why hurry?
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by curtstein »

LKM wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:11 pm Thanks for the explanation. Could you elaborate more about the 3 years and thereafter for deceased people.
The "Scripture on the Ten Kings" is the main source for the idea of the "middle existence" (aka "Bardo") taking up to three years to complete.

Stephen Teiser has literally "written the book" on this subject. But he also has a shorter article on the subject that is freely available for download:

http://ccsdb.ncl.edu.tw/ccs/image/001256722_0621.pdf

Another valuable source of information on the "Ten Kings" is a very recent post at Dale Quarrington's blog: https://koreantempleguide.com/. While his blog is primarily devoted to Korean Buddhism, this particular post (link below) is highly relevant to anyone interested in East Asian Buddhism generally:

https://koreantempleguide.com/siwang-th ... rworld-시왕/
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Aemilius
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by Aemilius »

curtstein wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:47 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 9:31 am By chance I came across an answer to your original question, it is in AbhidharmakosaBhasyam of Vasubandhu. There are about 20 pages concerning the intermediate state beginning at p. 382 in vol. II. It is interesting material. There are four different opinions concerning the length of the intermediate state. According to the commentators of ABK, Vasubandhu prefers the answer he has put first which is: " How long does an intermediate being exits? There is no fixed rule, says the Bhadanta". (Two of the other opinions are: 7 days, and 7 weeks.)
Wow! That is extremely interesting. I have recently been reading a lot about East Asian Buddhist thinking/practices regarding the intermediate state. In East Asia it is commonly believed that the first 49 days (the "seven seven") are subsequently followed by three more intermediate steps: 100 days after death, 1 year after death, and then a final stage that ends at least two years but probably no more than 3 years after death. This idea is associated with the "apocryphal" Scripture on the Ten Kings (in which there is one Judge/King for each of the first 7 groups of seven days, and then an additional Judge/King for the three subsequent periods, adding up to 10 - all of them acting under the supervision of Dizang/Ksitigarbha). It's fascinating (at least to me) to see an Indian source (Vasubandhu no less) who states that there is "no fixed time", thus leaving the door open at least a crack for legitimizing (or at least not completely ruling out) the 10 Kings model for the intermediate state.

In your page numbering are you referring to the Pruden English translation?

I recently read a great book on Pure Land Buddhism by Master Sheng Yeng where he sticks to the 49 day time frame, but states more than once that the first seven days are the most important.
Yes, I am referring to the Pruden English translation. "Bhadanta" whom Vasubandhu quotes as the source of this knowledge is the writer (or writers) of Vibhasha or the Abhidharma Mahāvibhāṣa Śāstra. (I hope I have understood it correctly.)
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ThreeVows
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by ThreeVows »

Aemilius wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:56 am In the books of Ian Stevenson there are cases in which the period between lives is several years. In the buddhist view the persons have probably been born as devas. Why not, for heavens sake!? The times passes differently in the deva realms; five, eight or nine human years is a much longer time in the deva realms.
In the Pali Suttas it at times says things like how one day and night in a deva realm might be many human years, which would be the opposite of what you're saying. On the other hand, it's said that Asanga went to Tushita to learn from Maitreya and was there for some 50 experiential years but it would be only a brief time here. If we were to take Asanga's story at face value it might seem quite reasonable that one may have had a lifetime as a deva but it only took some years here.
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Nosta
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by Nosta »

Many interesting ideas here! Thanks for answering, all of you.
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Re: Question: Reencarnation with years of break

Post by LKM »

ThreeVows wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:04 pm
Aemilius wrote: Mon Jul 25, 2022 8:56 am In the books of Ian Stevenson there are cases in which the period between lives is several years. In the buddhist view the persons have probably been born as devas. Why not, for heavens sake!? The times passes differently in the deva realms; five, eight or nine human years is a much longer time in the deva realms.
In the Pali Suttas it at times says things like how one day and night in a deva realm might be many human years, which would be the opposite of what you're saying. On the other hand, it's said that Asanga went to Tushita to learn from Maitreya and was there for some 50 experiential years but it would be only a brief time here. If we were to take Asanga's story at face value it might seem quite reasonable that one may have had a lifetime as a deva but it only took some years here.
You are right that there are obvious contractions. Not sure which version is correct. It seems from my readings of reincarnation where people can remember their past lives, reincarnation happened many years after passing on. Not sure what do people do in between reincarnation as humans again. It is the mystery of reincarnation.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Question: Reincarnation with years of break

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

There’s no ‘self’ that takes rebirth.
So, it’s not as though you die and you could be waiting around in some dimensional universe months or years until you get reborn.

The causes and conditions for a stream of consciousness either arise due to conditions or they don’t.

It’s like the conditions for weather to occur. A place that once saw rain in a regular basis might be in a drought. It’s not as though there is some rain cloud in some bardo somewhere. When the conditions are right, the water that was once a river will become a cloud and will turn into rain.

Maybe for 99% of the people, the conditions for rebirth occur in around 49 days. But it’s not a solid rule, because everybody has a different mind stream.



Mod note, November 2023:
There is a similar thread still alive, therfore this one can be shut down.
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=40828
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