Samatha Breath

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
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shanyin
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Samatha Breath

Post by shanyin »

I am trying to re-learn to meditate, from which I learned mostly from books.

When I meditate on the breath, should I pick a spot where I feel the breathe, and notice the sensations of the breath when going in and out?

Should I just train to be aware of what the breath is doing in the moment? ... All throughout my body?

I think that "Mindfulness Bliss and Beyond" says to pick a sort of imaginary spot under the nose if you have trouble feeling sensations on the nose and focus on it sort of.

I realize meditation on the breath with the amount of time I spend on it won't alleviate my suffering but I am hoping to have pleasant and even fun and enlightening times meditating on my breath. I have had good experiences with it in the past I think I just need some solid instructions.

Do I put my mind where the hara is? And be aware of the breath? :hi:

Maybe I need a meditation teacher. I went on a meditation retreat to a Theravada monstaery and it didn't go so well.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

shanyin wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:46 am I think that "Mindfulness Bliss and Beyond" says to pick a sort of imaginary spot under the nose if you have trouble feeling sensations on the nose and focus on it sort of.
The point of breath meditation is simply to focus the mind do that it isn’t wandering all over thinking about past and future and this thing and that thing. You can do that any way that works best for you.

We say “watching the breath” but It might be more accurate to say “focusing on breathing in order to watch the mind”. Because in a sense, you are also observing the mind that is watching the breath.

Traditionally, one rests one’s gaze downward along the slant of the nose, and you sort of watch that area, where the breath is going in and out of your nose. But it is a balance between focusing on one point and also allowing everything to fill in your awareness, all the way to your peripheral vision, just resting in that overall awareness.
I realize meditation on the breath with the amount of time I spend on it won't alleviate my suffering but I am hoping to have pleasant and even fun and enlightening times meditating on my breath. I have had good experiences with it in the past I think I just need some solid instructions.
You should let go of all expectations. Don’t “hope” to have this or that experience or try to recreate the past. That person doesn’t exist any more. How much time are you able to devote to it?

As long as you keep returning to watching the breath, you are meditating. If you are standing in line at the grocery store, just return your attention to the breath. You will find that all day long you have opportunities to meditate. This will accumulate and actually will benefit you.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook produces outward insight.
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leech_noggin
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by leech_noggin »

Here's how I do it. This works very well for me.

########

Sit down in your meditation spot. Back straight. Breathe from your belly. Eyes closed. Relax.

Put your attention on the feeling of breath in the tip of your nose.

(Give the end of your nose a little pinch. Feel that? That's where you put it).

The game is to hold your attention on the tip of your nose without moving it.

You will get distracted. Your attention will get drawn to other things. You will have all kinds of interesting thoughts, feelings, etc. You will daydream.

Whenever you catch yourself doing that, put your attention right back on the tip of your nose again.

Keep it there as perfectly as you can.

That's it. That's the whole technique.

########

MORE ABOUT THAT (details, enhancers, etc.) HERE : http://fleen.org/howto
(They refer to the technique as "Shrink" and to attention as "Light" but it's the same deal)
shanyin
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by shanyin »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:58 pm
shanyin wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 7:46 am I think that "Mindfulness Bliss and Beyond" says to pick a sort of imaginary spot under the nose if you have trouble feeling sensations on the nose and focus on it sort of.
The point of breath meditation is simply to focus the mind do that it isn’t wandering all over thinking about past and future and this thing and that thing. You can do that any way that works best for you.

We say “watching the breath” but It might be more accurate to say “focusing on breathing in order to watch the mind”. Because in a sense, you are also observing the mind that is watching the breath.

Traditionally, one rests one’s gaze downward along the slant of the nose, and you sort of watch that area, where the breath is going in and out of your nose. But it is a balance between focusing on one point and also allowing everything to fill in your awareness, all the way to your peripheral vision, just resting in that overall awareness.
I realize meditation on the breath with the amount of time I spend on it won't alleviate my suffering but I am hoping to have pleasant and even fun and enlightening times meditating on my breath. I have had good experiences with it in the past I think I just need some solid instructions.
You should let go of all expectations. Don’t “hope” to have this or that experience or try to recreate the past. That person doesn’t exist any more. How much time are you able to devote to it?

As long as you keep returning to watching the breath, you are meditating. If you are standing in line at the grocery store, just return your attention to the breath. You will find that all day long you have opportunities to meditate. This will accumulate and actually will benefit you.
I have alot of free time at the moment to devote to it. But I only can sit for about ten to twenty minutes before I get bored or stress overwhelms me or I get distracted by technology in my apartment.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

shanyin wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:10 pm I have alot of free time at the moment to devote to it. But I only can sit for about ten to twenty minutes before I get bored or stress overwhelms me or I get distracted by technology in my apartment.
Good! Do you know why that occurs?
The habit of self-grasping attachment is feeling threatened by the fact that you aren’t keeping it entertained, aren’t feeding it.
Basically, the big “ME” is starving for attention.

Do you have formal Buddhist meditation instruction? When those sensations arise, you let them go and return to the breath.

I’d say, go for 30 minutes.

Yes, it takes a few tries.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Try short sessions, like 5 minutes at a time, bunched together, if the meditation is not going well, take a short break, go back and do it as long as you can and still have it go well.

Don’t try to force yourself if you are agitated.

Also there are different ways to use the breath, you can focus on it as an object, or you can simply be aware or it and the sensation connected to it, which tends to be a bit more “open” and relaxed practice. There are all kinds of variations.

Also see if focus on the nose or belly is better for you, generally the higher you focus the more clarity but also possible scattering of thought/agitation the lower you go more calming but the possibility of lethargy.

Part of meditation is learning how to work with agitation and drowsiness and tune things just right.

Other things that will help is a nice space only for meditation, limiting tv/computer usage, getting good sleep, etc.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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shanyin
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by shanyin »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:58 pm As long as you keep returning to watching the breath, you are meditating.
I "THINK" I disagree with this a little bit. I think as long as you keep returning to the breath, you are focusing. I would in that case be building concentration. Just a thought. Meditation is more of a mental/psychological healing rather than just mindfulness. Just a thought. Maybe there's a little more to be said than just that one sentence?
shanyin
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by shanyin »

I will try 30 minutes. Thank you. :thanks:
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

shanyin wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:12 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:58 pm As long as you keep returning to watching the breath, you are meditating.
I "THINK" I disagree with this a little bit. I think as long as you keep returning to the breath, you are focusing. I would in that case be building concentration. Just a thought. Meditation is more of a mental/psychological healing rather than just mindfulness. Just a thought. Maybe there's a little more to be said than just that one sentence?
Yes, technically that is true.
But consider, if you are meditating for an hour, and for a few seconds now and then, you are distracted by wandering thoughts, but you return to watching the breath, you are still meditating.

So, by the same principle, if you are engaged in wandering thoughts for an hour, and for a few seconds now and then, you return to watching the breath, then, isn’t the only real difference that there’s a different ratio in the percentage of time focused vs undistracted?

So, that’s why I suggest that the active practice of returning attention to the breath is focusing the mind, and focusing the mind is meditation practice.

But yeah, that may only really describe the practice of mindfulness, not any ‘deep’ state of concentration.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

shanyin wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 1:12 am
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sat Oct 08, 2022 1:58 pm As long as you keep returning to watching the breath, you are meditating.
I "THINK" I disagree with this a little bit. I think as long as you keep returning to the breath, you are focusing. I would in that case be building concentration. Just a thought. Meditation is more of a mental/psychological healing rather than just mindfulness. Just a thought. Maybe there's a little more to be said than just that one sentence?
Concentration can be involved with ‘healing’ effects of meditation, if done well gaining greater control over ones attention is quite a source of peace. But yes, concentration is only one part of it.

The thing is, without a minimal ability to sustain your attention, any other meditation is often pointless, as your mind is too scattered to do anything. It doesn’t take a ton of work, but gaining a minimal ability to sustain attention is kind of a pre requisite for going deeper.

Eventually there are practices that allow for liberating thought emotion, etc, but these usually involve a thought or emotion becoming the object of meditation to some degree…the analogy is watching a river go by, but not getting pulled into it.

IME most of us get pulled in without something to hold onto in the beginning, and that is the point of using the breath as an anchor.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Jokingfish
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by Jokingfish »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:27 am Don’t try to force yourself if you are agitated.
Why not?
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Jokingfish wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:29 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:27 am Don’t try to force yourself if you are agitated.
Why not?
Because it will make you more agitated, tense, and unable to meditate.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
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Jokingfish
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by Jokingfish »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:12 pm
Jokingfish wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 2:29 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 12:27 am Don’t try to force yourself if you are agitated.
Why not?
Because it will make you more agitated, tense, and unable to meditate.
So what should you do if you're agitated?
DharmaJunior
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by DharmaJunior »

Quite recently I had this experience where I was caught up in panic and anxiety. I tried to remember some teachings and what some of the people here have said, but more trying just didn't seem to work. After a while, I recall there was some observing taking place and resting into the position I was in.

What was very strange, at some point, it switched off almost instantly. So the experience went from storm to calm in a blink of the eye. How did this happen, I don't know, but perhaps it does have something to do with what others say here about not forcing it. Monks and professionals also say about befriending panic/agitation, and hopefully this is not shoehorning my limited ability experience here. Just a thought.

I also searching for experience about the jhanas, since I wondered if I had also accidentally stumbled upon it once or twice without trying on the cushion but just observing different states of mind conciousness, but still a bit shy to say too much, suffice to say it was like my body became like water ripples or vibrations that started at base of foot and spread upwards to top of head.

That said, it's not something I can do.
tingdzin
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Re: Samatha Breath

Post by tingdzin »

Don't focus on the tip of your nose; it will make you nuts if you do it seriously for a long time. The instruction actually intends that you direct your gaze down past the tip of you nose to the ground. There are all sorts of instructions on breath meditation in good books on the subject; a lot of how you do it depends on what you are looking for. You could try The Rinzai Zen Way, or Zen Training for some approaches.

If you practice sincerely, you'll have all kinds of unusual experiences, but just keep practicing, unless they are painful, and don't be attached to the experience.
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