Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

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Buddhawithoutorgans
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Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Buddhawithoutorgans »

Hi all,

I apologise if the topic of online empowerment is controversial, I only mean to ask the question. Is Troma Nagmo Empowerment ever given via streaming/online? I attended an online retreat earlier this year but the streamed empowerment could only be received as a blessing, and I haven't encountered her teaching elsewhere. My guess is that her practice is kept secret and/or I don't have the karma to receive her, but living in a regional town in an extremely remote area, in-person events are limited to pujas (which we are very fortunate to have!)

Thank you for your time
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conebeckham
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by conebeckham »

If there are pujas in "meat space," in your town, I cannot imagine there would not be the possibility of bestowing the empowerment itself. I don't know of anyone who would give this empowerment "on-line,' and it is usually a fairly "well-guarded" practice. But there are Lamas who travel and would likely bestow this empowerment along with the instructions. Or you could keep an eye out for an opportunity to travel to get this.....Sangye Khandro would be the person I would ask, regarding specifics, etc. at Tashi Choling in Ashland, Oregon.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
VolkerK
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by VolkerK »

Annual Summer Retreat - June 11, 2:00 pm Troma Nagmo Empowerment (blessings only)


Full Troma Important Empowerment at Sherpa Gonpa, KTM


Troma Nagmo Full Krodikali Practice
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Lingpupa
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Lingpupa »

If you ask me (and by implication you've asked us all) °online empowerments° are a travesty. Like books, online teachings have been a boon, but online empowerments are like online sex. You might enjoy it, but it's not the real thing.
All best wishes

"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Toenail
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Toenail »

Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:33 am If you ask me (and by implication you've asked us all) °online empowerments° are a travesty. Like books, online teachings have been a boon, but online empowerments are like online sex. You might enjoy it, but it's not the real thing.
That is not my experience. I received many empowerments from Sakya Trizin for example in person and online and I don't feel any difference.
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Lingpupa
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Lingpupa »

Toenail wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:17 am
Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:33 am If you ask me (and by implication you've asked us all) °online empowerments° are a travesty. Like books, online teachings have been a boon, but online empowerments are like online sex. You might enjoy it, but it's not the real thing.
That is not my experience. I received many empowerments from Sakya Trizin for example in person and online and I don't feel any difference.
Well if that feels good to you, well ok. I doubt that either of us is about to change our POV, so let's not try. But perhaps you could explain a bit about how it works. When the lama touches you on the head with a dorje or other implement, do you go up and bump your head against the screen? When dutsi is given out, do you have pre-consecrated dutsi shipped to you in advance? Or do you get up and lick the screen?

Just two examples to help us understand.
All best wishes

"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
Toenail
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Toenail »

Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:09 pm
Toenail wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:17 am
Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:33 am If you ask me (and by implication you've asked us all) °online empowerments° are a travesty. Like books, online teachings have been a boon, but online empowerments are like online sex. You might enjoy it, but it's not the real thing.
That is not my experience. I received many empowerments from Sakya Trizin for example in person and online and I don't feel any difference.
Well if that feels good to you, well ok. I doubt that either of us is about to change our POV, so let's not try. But perhaps you could explain a bit about how it works. When the lama touches you on the head with a dorje or other implement, do you go up and bump your head against the screen? When dutsi is given out, do you have pre-consecrated dutsi shipped to you in advance? Or do you get up and lick the screen?

Just two examples to help us understand.
In the case of the empowerments that HHST gives there are usually no substances involved during online empowerments.

If I had to choose an action in the scenarios you are referencing I would probably just visualize receiving it.
Norwegian
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Norwegian »

Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:09 pm
Toenail wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:17 am
Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:33 am If you ask me (and by implication you've asked us all) °online empowerments° are a travesty. Like books, online teachings have been a boon, but online empowerments are like online sex. You might enjoy it, but it's not the real thing.
That is not my experience. I received many empowerments from Sakya Trizin for example in person and online and I don't feel any difference.
Well if that feels good to you, well ok. I doubt that either of us is about to change our POV, so let's not try. But perhaps you could explain a bit about how it works. When the lama touches you on the head with a dorje or other implement, do you go up and bump your head against the screen? When dutsi is given out, do you have pre-consecrated dutsi shipped to you in advance? Or do you get up and lick the screen?

Just two examples to help us understand.
There is not just one type of empowerment. There are many.

Some empowerments cannot ever be given online, by way of live streaming no matter who the teacher is, simply because of the type of empowerment, requiring the use of physical samaya substances, physical samaya implements, and so on. Then there are other empowerments that do not require the use of such physical objects, and as such, can be given online, by way of live streaming (again, live, not recording). Some of these empowerments belong to Dzogchen, as an example.
Malcolm
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Malcolm »

Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:09 pmBut perhaps you could explain a bit about how it works.
Depends on the empowerment, meaning empowerments that don't use substances are not an issue.
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conebeckham
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by conebeckham »

Malcolm wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 10:00 pm
Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:09 pmBut perhaps you could explain a bit about how it works.
Depends on the empowerment, meaning empowerments that don't use substances are not an issue.
Agreed. But for those requiring substances, streamed or remote empowerments are impossible. Anyone who has had an actual Wang with TaGon, etc. will readily understand why this is the case. How does one "throw the toothpick" remotely? Water Purification? Etc.--it is just not possible.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Buddhawithoutorgans
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Buddhawithoutorgans »

conebeckham wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 12:51 am If there are pujas in "meat space," in your town, I cannot imagine there would not be the possibility of bestowing the empowerment itself. I don't know of anyone who would give this empowerment "on-line,' and it is usually a fairly "well-guarded" practice. But there are Lamas who travel and would likely bestow this empowerment along with the instructions. Or you could keep an eye out for an opportunity to travel to get this.....Sangye Khandro would be the person I would ask, regarding specifics, etc. at Tashi Choling in Ashland, Oregon.
Actually no, we had no teacher for a long time and now we have a part time teacher who is only qualified to give refuge. I had this conversation with her. Being in a small town next to the most geographically remote city on earth means that not many teachers travel here. While I'm extremely grateful for what we do have, a small FPMT affiliate, the majority of my study has been online by necessity. If I have the opportunity to receive empowerments in person I'd joyously take them, but there is no one here who offers them. Some students at my centre travel interstate and overseas but this isn't an option for me due to finances and caring commitments. Thank you for your response
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Buddhawithoutorgans
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Buddhawithoutorgans »

VolkerK wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 1:30 am Annual Summer Retreat - June 11, 2:00 pm Troma Nagmo Empowerment (blessings only)


Full Troma Important Empowerment at Sherpa Gonpa, KTM


Troma Nagmo Full Krodikali Practice
Thank you for this, I actually received the first link live as a blessing. Hopefully this will plant a seed for a future empowerment 🙏 unfortunately the other links appear to be unavailable
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Buddhawithoutorgans
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Buddhawithoutorgans »

Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:33 am If you ask me (and by implication you've asked us all) °online empowerments° are a travesty. Like books, online teachings have been a boon, but online empowerments are like online sex. You might enjoy it, but it's not the real thing.
With all due respect, my question was explicitly about the availability of online Troma Nagmo Empowerment, not the validity of it. I doubt we will change each other's minds at this moment but I'm grateful for whatever access to the dharma I have. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has given highest tantra empowerments online and that's good enough for me
YesheDronmar
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by YesheDronmar »

As far as I have found, Pema Osel Ling offers the most accessible Troma online/via streaming. And, what I have found is that sometimes they offer more than is ‘advertised’. So if Troma is what you are after, then you can join for their weekly and monthly online pujas.

https://www.vajrayana.org/streaming/

In addition, if you get on their mailing list, then you will get emails with the various programs, many of which are streamed live. They offer Troma-based teachings once or twice a year (in addition to the weekly/monthly streamed practices that I noted above).

May your aspirations bear fruit and all beings benefit!
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tobes
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by tobes »

Buddhawithoutorgans wrote: Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:19 am
Lingpupa wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 8:33 am If you ask me (and by implication you've asked us all) °online empowerments° are a travesty. Like books, online teachings have been a boon, but online empowerments are like online sex. You might enjoy it, but it's not the real thing.
With all due respect, my question was explicitly about the availability of online Troma Nagmo Empowerment, not the validity of it. I doubt we will change each other's minds at this moment but I'm grateful for whatever access to the dharma I have. His Holiness the Dalai Lama has given highest tantra empowerments online and that's good enough for me
He in fact gave this one online, in early 2020 as part of the Manjushri Cycle......so you never know - it is clearly possible.

If the question is: who knows better, the internet or HHST and HHDL? I think you're prudent to trust the latter two....
YesheDronmar
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by YesheDronmar »

Here is another option for online Troma empowerment and practice, from 2022. They do this annually, so getting on their mailing list is a good idea if you want to be notified of events for 2023.

https://atiling.org/throma-nagmo-drubchod-2022/
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Shaiksha
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Shaiksha »

YesheDronmar wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 7:04 am Here is another option for online Troma empowerment and practice, from 2022. They do this annually, so getting on their mailing list is a good idea if you want to be notified of events for 2023.

https://atiling.org/throma-nagmo-drubchod-2022/
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Natan
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Natan »

YesheDronmar wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:21 am As far as I have found, Pema Osel Ling offers the most accessible Troma online/via streaming. And, what I have found is that sometimes they offer more than is ‘advertised’. So if Troma is what you are after, then you can join for their weekly and monthly online pujas.

https://www.vajrayana.org/streaming/

In addition, if you get on their mailing list, then you will get emails with the various programs, many of which are streamed live. They offer Troma-based teachings once or twice a year (in addition to the weekly/monthly streamed practices that I noted above).

May your aspirations bear fruit and all beings benefit!
A wonderful group, many West side (of Earth) born folks who are lamas or who have complete 3yr retreats. A magical place.
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Buddhawithoutorgans
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Buddhawithoutorgans »

Natan wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 2:01 pm
YesheDronmar wrote: Tue Dec 20, 2022 4:21 am As far as I have found, Pema Osel Ling offers the most accessible Troma online/via streaming. And, what I have found is that sometimes they offer more than is ‘advertised’. So if Troma is what you are after, then you can join for their weekly and monthly online pujas.

https://www.vajrayana.org/streaming/

In addition, if you get on their mailing list, then you will get emails with the various programs, many of which are streamed live. They offer Troma-based teachings once or twice a year (in addition to the weekly/monthly streamed practices that I noted above).

May your aspirations bear fruit and all beings benefit!
A wonderful group, many West side (of Earth) born folks who are lamas or who have complete 3yr retreats. A magical place.
I've attended one of their Troma Nagmo retreats but unfortunately they only offer blessings online, not empowerment
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Lingpupa
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Re: Troma Nagmo empowerment online?

Post by Lingpupa »

Buddhawithoutorgans wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 6:02 pm I've attended one of their Troma Nagmo retreats but unfortunately they only offer blessings online, not empowerment
And quite rightly so, imho. Online "empowerment" is like online sex - you might like it, but it's not the same as the real thing!
All best wishes

"The profundity of your devotion to your lama is not measured by your ability to turn a blind eye."
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