DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Discuss the application of the Dharma to situations of social, political, environmental and economic suffering and injustice.
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PadmaVonSamba
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DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

From DKR’s Facebook page:

Dear Ms. Greta Thunberg,

After following your activities for several years, I am writing to you sincerely to make an urgent plea.

I am moved by your passion and dedication in the face of a colossal and seemingly impossible undertaking, with endless obstacles on the way. At the very least, you have made our precarious climate an urgent issue in the hearts and minds of young people. After all, they are the inheritors of the world my generation is leaving behind.

I am a Buddhist, so one of my foundational beliefs is the reality of cause, condition, and impact. I have no knowledge of modern science, but for more than half my life I have been hearing about the degeneration and destruction of the environment. If the world’s scientists are right, then the future of the world seems very grim indeed.

There are individuals like yourself doing all you can. Many more occasionally raise their hands in protest, contribute a few pennies here and there, or refrain from using plastic shopping bags. But no major paradigm shift is happening. And sadly, looking ahead, I don’t have much hope that it will.

If the warnings of scientists are true, as recent events around the world seem to show, then what is the purpose of technological revolutions like artificial intelligence when the earth becomes unlivable. What is the point of a growing economy if we have to buy the air we need to breathe or wage war for fresh water?

If what scientists predict really comes to pass, then we will face problems that cannot be solved just by washing our hands, social distancing, wearing masks, or even state-of-the-art vaccines.

If we will have to fight for air, water and food to survive, as scientists predict, what is the point of liberal values like freedom of speech, individual rights, and democracy? To me these cherished values are now just bourgeois toys and luxury items, like an extra pair of stylish, furred Prada shoes.

As you wrote in the New Statesman, politicians in developed countries have coopted climate issues for their electoral campaigns without making any meaningful change. While championing the liberal order and human rights, they’ve failed to keep even their own promises to fund poorer countries battling climate disasters. As you wrote, these politicians are “distracting the electorate” with “greenwashing and PR.”

Also, I’m sure you are well aware of the vicious cycle in which noble causes quickly become newsworthy and trendy, and then just as quickly dwindle, and disappear without any real result. We cannot let that happen here. The stakes are simply too high for your voice to fade. One reason people listen to you is because of the power and sincerity of your youth. Please now use that power in the only way I see that will produce real action:

I entreat you now to go to Beijing and invite all the major, mainstream western and international media to join you. There, give up all the glory of that mighty European pride and sense of moral authority, and kowtow three times to Mr. Xi Jinping. Ask him if he wants to be remembered by future generations as the saviour of the earth. Tell him – “Now is the time!” Beg him to save this precious earth. And please do so from the bottom of your heart, as you always do, with no strings attached.

If there is one person who can do it, it is this man. That has nothing to do with Mr. Xi’s goodness and compassion or lack of it. It is simply because only he has the power and capacity to do what is needed right now.

Xi Jinping leads nearly one and a half billion people, and a country developing at miraculous speed. Even with one positive coronavirus case, he can quickly lock down a city of millions. That says something about his power. So please ask him to use all his strength, decisiveness, and “autocratic”, “dictatorial”, “totalitarian” power – exactly what people accuse him of – to save this earth.

In fact, Mr. Xi has more in his arsenal than sheer power alone. Because China has a more collective mindset than the individualist west, ecological consciousness will be a much easier “sell” there. The Chinese will respond more readily to a collective plea to make sacrifices for the common good than in the west, where any infringement on individual comfort is bitterly resisted.

No other leader on this planet can do what Mr. Xi can do. There may be other leaders with integrity who are compassionate, just, moral, and uncorrupted. But they are either small and insignificant or, even if they have some weight, will spend ages discussing things in Parliament, negotiating with lobbyists, and being swayed by special interests.

And you know well that we don’t have even minutes, let alone ages. So, I beseech you with all my heart to go to Beijing for the sake of our environment, for the earth, for the world.

I know that my just asking you to do this will raise so many eyebrows. Even before they finish reading this letter, people will put me into some category. I may be totally wrong in my understanding, but in my heart, I am making this plea to you for the sake of our planet.

Indeed, if you do this, you will raise far more eyebrows and have so many people against you. But do you really want to forsake the earth to uphold some image of liberal democracy? Letting go of that notion is a small price to pay to save our species. After all, from Greenland to Patagonia and from New York to Vladivostok, all human beings on this planet are “like-minded” in wanting fresh air to breathe, clean water to drink, and safety from climate catastrophe.

And so, if you actually want to achieve what you have been saying for all these years and stop the climate crisis before it is too late, as I know you do, then please go to Beijing and do this.

Sincerely,
Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Kim O'Hara »

:thumbsup:
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 12:31 am From DKR’s Facebook page:

...Xi Jinping leads nearly one and a half billion people, and a country developing at miraculous speed. Even with one positive coronavirus case, he can quickly lock down a city of millions. That says something about his power. So please ask him to use all his strength, decisiveness, and “autocratic”, “dictatorial”, “totalitarian” power – exactly what people accuse him of – to save this earth. ...
That's true, too. It's also true that China's CO2 emissions are very high, and the country still relies very heavily on coal-fired power.

However, it ignores the fact that China is already moving more quickly towards clean energy than most nations (plenty of facts and figures here - https://energypost.eu/chinas-energy-sys ... dominates/).
I'm pretty sure the Chinese leadership is very well aware of the impending environmental disaster and has been working as quickly as possible towards a more sustainable economy. (Beijing's air quality was a big hint. So is the desertification of the West of the country.) Their difficulty is that the sheer size of the country means that "as quickly as possible" is not very quickly, in spite of the advantages (in this context!!) of centralised power.

If I were able to send a culturally appropriate Angelic Messenger to any part of the world's leadership, I would be deciding between the OPEC+ leadership, the Davos forum and the Kremlin.
That's after considering https://worldpopulationreview.com/count ... by-country, by the way.

:namaste:
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Inedible »

Bring the Dalai Lama, too, so he can actually talk with the person who owns Tibet.
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Toenail »

Maybe I'm too young and shit, but I find DJKR's political and historical views very simplistic and cringy.
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Malcolm »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:20 am
I'm pretty sure the Chinese leadership is very well aware of the impending environmental disaster and has been working as quickly as possible towards a more sustainable economy. (Beijing's air quality was a big hint. So is the desertification of the West of the country.) Their difficulty is that the sheer size of the country means that "as quickly as possible" is not very quickly, in spite of the advantages (in this context!!) of centralised power.
A better indicator is car sales:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/276 ... -by-month/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233 ... -in-china/

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car ... untry.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... by_country
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!

—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:08 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:20 am
I'm pretty sure the Chinese leadership is very well aware of the impending environmental disaster and has been working as quickly as possible towards a more sustainable economy. (Beijing's air quality was a big hint. So is the desertification of the West of the country.) Their difficulty is that the sheer size of the country means that "as quickly as possible" is not very quickly, in spite of the advantages (in this context!!) of centralised power.
A better indicator is car sales:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/276 ... -by-month/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233 ... -in-china/

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car ... untry.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... by_country
I'm not quite sure what your point is, Malcolm.
That the Chinese are still buying lots of cars? (True, but they are still way behind the West on cars per capita.) (And what kind kind of cars?)
That China is electrifying its vehicle fleet faster than most of the rest of the world? (True.)
Or something else?

:popcorn:
Kim
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Toenail wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:56 pm Maybe I'm too young and shit, but I find DJKR's political and historical views very simplistic and cringy.
Nope, I think that tracks.
Don’t you see what’s wrong with the world today? Oh Everybody wants somebody to be their own piece of clay.

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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Malcolm »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:45 pm
Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:08 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote: Tue Dec 06, 2022 6:20 am
I'm pretty sure the Chinese leadership is very well aware of the impending environmental disaster and has been working as quickly as possible towards a more sustainable economy. (Beijing's air quality was a big hint. So is the desertification of the West of the country.) Their difficulty is that the sheer size of the country means that "as quickly as possible" is not very quickly, in spite of the advantages (in this context!!) of centralised power.
A better indicator is car sales:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/276 ... -by-month/

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233 ... -in-china/

https://www.factorywarrantylist.com/car ... untry.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_ ... by_country
I'm not quite sure what your point is, Malcolm.
That the Chinese are still buying lots of cars? (True, but they are still way behind the West on cars per capita.) (And what kind kind of cars?)
That China is electrifying its vehicle fleet faster than most of the rest of the world? (True.)
Or something else?

:popcorn:
Kim
The point is that despite their rhetoric, they are not really changing anything.
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!

—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by conebeckham »

Toenail wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:56 pm Maybe I'm too young and shit, but I find DJKR's political and historical views very simplistic and cringy.
Gotta agree. What does DJKR think Greta could possibly due in PRC? She would have no platform, if she tried to take his advice, and may even find herself in some serious trouble, or worse. DJKR the provocateur's ideas always strike me as hypothetical, with a view toward making some sort of commentary. Yeah, PRC pollutes, yeah, PRC is not going to abide by any Climate Change Accords, blah blah blah. We get it.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:01 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:45 pm
I'm not quite sure what your point is, Malcolm.
That the Chinese are still buying lots of cars? (True, but they are still way behind the West on cars per capita.) (And what kind kind of cars?)
That China is electrifying its vehicle fleet faster than most of the rest of the world? (True.)
Or something else?

:popcorn:
Kim
The point is that despite their rhetoric, they are not really changing anything.
:jawdrop:
That's unfair and completely untrue. China has changed far more in your lifetime (and mine) than the USA (or Australia) and is still changing much faster than we are.
They are changing lots of things, all at once. Some of their changes are bad for the environment and some are good, but they are doing the best they can to stay afloat while averting, or at least mitigating, future catastrophes.
This longish article gives a pretty good overview of the challenges they face - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-23/ ... y/12772034.

:namaste:
Kim
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Malcolm »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:10 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:01 pm
Kim O'Hara wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:45 pm
I'm not quite sure what your point is, Malcolm.
That the Chinese are still buying lots of cars? (True, but they are still way behind the West on cars per capita.) (And what kind kind of cars?)
That China is electrifying its vehicle fleet faster than most of the rest of the world? (True.)
Or something else?

:popcorn:
Kim
The point is that despite their rhetoric, they are not really changing anything.
:jawdrop:
That's unfair and completely untrue. China has changed far more in your lifetime (and mine) than the USA (or Australia) and is still changing much faster than we are.
They are changing lots of things, all at once. Some of their changes are bad for the environment and some are good, but they are doing the best they can to stay afloat while averting, or at least mitigating, future catastrophes.
This longish article gives a pretty good overview of the challenges they face - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-23/ ... y/12772034.

:namaste:
Kim
Have you actually been there?

M
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!

—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:53 am
Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:10 am
Malcolm wrote: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:01 pm

The point is that despite their rhetoric, they are not really changing anything.
:jawdrop:
That's unfair and completely untrue. China has changed far more in your lifetime (and mine) than the USA (or Australia) and is still changing much faster than we are.
They are changing lots of things, all at once. Some of their changes are bad for the environment and some are good, but they are doing the best they can to stay afloat while averting, or at least mitigating, future catastrophes.
This longish article gives a pretty good overview of the challenges they face - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-23/ ... y/12772034.

:namaste:
Kim
Have you actually been there?

M
No. What difference might that make?

:coffee:
Kim
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Malcolm »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:17 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:53 am
Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:10 am
:jawdrop:
That's unfair and completely untrue. China has changed far more in your lifetime (and mine) than the USA (or Australia) and is still changing much faster than we are.
They are changing lots of things, all at once. Some of their changes are bad for the environment and some are good, but they are doing the best they can to stay afloat while averting, or at least mitigating, future catastrophes.
This longish article gives a pretty good overview of the challenges they face - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-23/ ... y/12772034.

:namaste:
Kim
Have you actually been there?

M
No. What difference might that make?

:coffee:
Kim
Then you don’t really know how it is on the ground in China. I’ve been there. I’ve seen how things are with my own eyes. Don’t believe the hype. The Chinese are ecologically engineering themselves into a nightmare.
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!

—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Sādhaka »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:24 amThen you don’t really know how it is on the ground in China. I’ve been there. I’ve seen how things are with my own eyes. Don’t believe the hype. The Chinese are ecologically engineering themselves into a nightmare.

Contemporary-China seems to be the epitome of orwellianism, these days.

That being a political matter that I can agree with you upon
Last edited by Sādhaka on Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:24 am
Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:17 am
Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 1:53 am

Have you actually been there?

M
No. What difference might that make?

:coffee:
Kim
Then you don’t really know how it is on the ground in China. I’ve been there. I’ve seen how things are with my own eyes. Don’t believe the hype. The Chinese are ecologically engineering themselves into a nightmare.
What a visitor - you or anyone else - sees is inevitably limited and unbalanced. What we see through the eyes of resident foreign journalists may be less so.

But the question about their current situation isn't so much, "Is this terrible?" as "Could they have done any better?" I think the answers are respectively "Yes," and, "Probably not."
A follow-up question might be, "Given the mess the Communists inherited in the late 1940s, could anyone have done any better?" and again I think the answer is, "Probably not." Alternate-history SF could have fun trying to answer that in more detail but, so far as I know, no-one has tried. Where would China be now if the KMT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang had won and the Communists were bumped out to Taiwan?
Another follow-up question is the one I answered a few posts ago: who really needs a visit from an Angelic Messenger? That is, who could make a big difference but isn't trying?

:thinking:
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Malcolm »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:19 am What a visitor - you or anyone else - sees is inevitably limited and unbalanced.
With all due respect, in this case you really don't understand how things are, nor do you understand where I was, what I saw, and how long I was there, nor do you seem to understand the depth of corruption in Chinese society, which render local metrics unreliable.
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!

—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by Kim O'Hara »

Malcolm wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:15 am
Kim O'Hara wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 3:19 am What a visitor - you or anyone else - sees is inevitably limited and unbalanced.
With all due respect, in this case you really don't understand how things are, nor do you understand where I was, what I saw, and how long I was there, nor do you seem to understand the depth of corruption in Chinese society, which render local metrics unreliable.
With an exactly equal amount of respect, you don't know what I understand.
Nor do I know (yet) where you were, what you saw, or how long you were there. (You could, of course, tell us.) If you have some information (about China, that is) you would like to share, please go ahead...

:popcorn:
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by muni »

The most secret thing from China I can tell you is that their potato chips have eyes.

:focus:

Climate.
It is because of our destructive arrogant ego this planet is now in emergency. What we can try to do we should instead of continuing our destructive behavior and seeking the faults with others.
The difference between unawareness/extremism and awareness/Buddhism is that by the first there are many enemies, by the second none.
https://www.shambhala.com/snowlion_arti ... m-thubten/
https://www.shambhala.com/snowlion_arti ... ghtenment/
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by muni »

Taking care of our planet is like taking care of our houses. Since we human beings come from nature, there is no point in our going against nature, which is why I say the environment is not a matter of religion or ethics or morality. These are luxuries, since we can survive without them. But we will not survive if we continue to go against nature.

We have to accept this. If we unbalance nature, humankind will suffer. Furthermore, as people alive today, we must consider future generations: a clean environment is a human right like any other. It is therefore part of our responsibility towards others to ensure that the world we pass on is as healthy, if not healthier, than when we found it. This is not quite such a difficult proposition as it might sound. For although there is a limit to what we as individuals can do, there is no limit to what a universal response might achieve. It is up to us as individuals to do what we can, however little that may be. Just because switching off the light when leaving the room seems inconsequential, it does not mean that we should not do it... Dalai Lama
https://www.dalailama.com/messages/envi ... out%20them.
https://www.dalailama.com/messages/environment
When we cannot do that much, I guess, we can support those who try, as much as we can in whatever which way. :namaste:

PS I am not on facebook. When there is any
news, thank you for informing._/\_
The difference between unawareness/extremism and awareness/Buddhism is that by the first there are many enemies, by the second none.
https://www.shambhala.com/snowlion_arti ... m-thubten/
https://www.shambhala.com/snowlion_arti ... ghtenment/
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Re: DJK Rinpoche asks Greta to visit China on climate

Post by VolkerK »

once again a cynical and condescending contribution from the tantric troll and clown djk that reflects his negative mindset. fortunately there are also positive and constructive contributions from the buddhist leaders and groups, among others also from the dalai lama.
greta has already spoken out about the lack of climate and environmental protection in china and was severely criticized and attacked by the chinese government and its trolls.

His Holiness the Dalai Lama In Conversation with Greta Thunberg and Leading Scientists
https://www.dalailama.com/videos/his-ho ... scientists

The Dalai Lama and Greta Thunberg Unite Against the Climate Crisis
https://www.lionsroar.com/the-dalai-lam ... te-crisis/

Buddhists in New York Join Greta Thunberg to Call for Action on Climate Change
https://www.buddhistdoor.net/news/buddh ... te-change/
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