World Cup 2022

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Queequeg
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Queequeg »

Watched the first two Japan matches in Japan. First game against Germany when they were down 1 and Germany was moving the ball smoothly, I expected a dismal loss. When they came out aggressive in the second half, my eye balls popped out of my head and found myself shouting with excitement on a quiet Kyoto night. The Costa Rica loss was a severe let down. Back home yesterday, I was watching with distracted attention as they were down against Spain. Went to do some work in my office and came back to find them up 2-1. Shocked.

I don't think you Europeans understand what you saw in Japan. That is a great defensive team, and their goalie is money. They have the discipline to wait for opportunities and strike when the other team makes mistakes. They have several Bundislega players. Watching interviews with them, it was interesting those players say something very Japanese "I wanted to play in Germany to understand their culture and the way they play the game." Japanese have been appropriating culture for centuries and have made it an art form. They see the German style of play with its meticulous approach, which I think resonates with Japanese attention to detail and discipline and wanted to take it for their own. I expect them to continue to improve their play going forward, taking what they learn abroad and making their own style.

I don't know how far they will go, but they are a very dangerous team and should make everyone nervous. They are a very confident and competent bunch. As an aside, I think Japanese have finally shed the guilt of WWII and are re-asserting their killer-Bushido attitudes. You see it in the way their soccer teams carry themselves on the international stage. I don't know how that plays out, but I expect Japan as a whole to be less deferential than they have been since WWII going forward. That might get them into trouble, but for now, it makes for some good soccer teams.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Kai lord »

Many people are highly excited for a possible Argentina vs Brazil and France vs Portugal semi finals now because we will all get to see

Messi vs Neymar and Ronaldo vs Mbappe in the semis followed by a Ronaldo/Mbappe vs Messi/Neymar in the third place and final

Holy sh1t, What a matchup those matches would be!!!
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Queequeg
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Queequeg »

Side note on all the upsets in this tournament - I think the soccer watching world hasn't caught up to reality. These surprising losses are not so much upsets as evidence that the rest of the soccer playing world is catching up to the teams that have been powerhouses to this point. We are seeing in teams from the Middle East and Asia players who are second and third generation soccer players, coming up through competitive homegrown youth systems. That's certainly the case with the Americans, and I expect the US to win a world cup within the next few cycles. In the US, we just started playing soccer in the 70s and early 80s. Now, I think many Europeans and S. Americans would recognize the robust youth programs and scouting systems that cherry pick the best players for development from very young ages. Kids who in previous generations were playing American football, basketball, baseball, etc. are now playing soccer. The talent pool here is expanding rapidly as is the experience level of youth league coaches. Just an example, in the past, youth soccer was coached by a dad who maybe played some high school soccer, if at all. My son's travel team is coached by a dad, but that guy played Division I college (the most competitive level) and semi-pro. We don't have many great athletes on the team, but for 9 year olds, they have very high soccer IQs and play disciplined team ball, winning games against teams with better athletes but less soccer wisdom. These kids are going to grow up with greater knowledge of the game, and as they grow up and become dads, they're going to pass that on to their kids who will then be starting from higher base lines.

I'll just close my argument by referring to the dominance of the US women's team. I don't think that dominance has much to do with something intrinsically dominant about American women athletes so much as girl's soccer has been developing here for much longer due to our equality laws (Title IX) that require schools and other institutions to allocate equal resources to women's sports programs. This is something lacking in other countries - even as their men's teams are powerhouses. I was speaking to a Belgian acquaintance who said girl's soccer only started taking off in the last decade there. Meanwhile, their men's team has been one of the best.

Its an interesting time to be a soccer fan. These upsets we are seeing are the result of globalization and the rise of nations who are now catching up to the so called developed soccer world.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Virgo »

Kai lord wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 8:44 am This Germany is not the same Germany I grew up with. They deserve to be outed by Japan ever since they lost the head to head match.

Hope they will be back in form by Euro 2024
:thumbsup:
Many people are highly excited for a possible Argentina vs Brazil and France vs Portugal semi finals now because we will all get to see

Messi vs Neymar and Ronaldo vs Mbappe in the semis followed by a Ronaldo/Mbappe vs Messi/Neymar in the third place and final

Holy sh1t, What a matchup those matches would be!!!
This. :thumbsup:

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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by DNS »

Two Asian nations advance! Japan and South Korea.

South Korea made it by getting a late goal, almost at full time. They had same points as Uruguay and same Goal Difference, so it went to the next tie break stat of who had most goals.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by DNS »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 3:44 pm I'll just close my argument by referring to the dominance of the US women's team. I don't think that dominance has much to do with something intrinsically dominant about American women athletes so much as girl's soccer has been developing here for much longer due to our equality laws (Title IX) that require schools and other institutions to allocate equal resources to women's sports programs. This is something lacking in other countries - even as their men's teams are powerhouses. I was speaking to a Belgian acquaintance who said girl's soccer only started taking off in the last decade there. Meanwhile, their men's team has been one of the best.

Its an interesting time to be a soccer fan. These upsets we are seeing are the result of globalization and the rise of nations who are now catching up to the so called developed soccer world.
I agree. Yes, the American women's team has been very successful, winning several World Cup titles and Gold medals at the Olympics too.

It's the reasons you stated and another reason could be less competition. There are many nations that probably don't even have a women's team, for example Saudi Arabia, Iran and some others.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

DNS wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 6:09 pm Two Asian nations advance! Japan and South Korea.

South Korea made it by getting a late goal, almost at full time. They had same points as Uruguay and same Goal Difference, so it went to the next tie break stat of who had most goals.
I was looking forward to Brazil Uruguay

Maybe there'll be a few minnows who make it as far as the semis
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Svalaksana »

Ronaldo is an active ex-player, a reformed narcissist looking solely to fetch new records, and is bringing down Portugal's squad which is one of the best in their history. Definitely not an exemplary captain of a national team in any way, shape or form, very embarassing to witness particularly due to his age, which one would expect it to provide him with enough common-sense to avoid all the histrionic and infantile antics.

It doesn't help having an old-fashioned coach with dusty, uninspired ideas and tactics, and most importantly, lacking the courage to bench Cristiano or to attempt a strategy which does not involve sacrificing the whole team to play exclusively for Cristiano. In the end, this whole soap-opera surrounding him (the timely Piers Morgan interview, the obsession with claiming to himself a goal which never belonged to him anyway, his blame-shifting and the constant complaining even when it's his own fault and his general underperformances, especially the horrendous display today) is sure to stifle the Portuguese team's talent, trust and ambition. Truly disheartening poor excuse of a show, and Portuguese fans are rightfully starting to get really tired of it.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Genjo Conan »

Lol Brazil

BRING ME MORE CHAOS
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Norwegian »

Genjo Conan wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:22 pm Lol Brazil

BRING ME MORE CHAOS
An irrelevant result for Brazil though (who played with their reserves), as they still win their group. And Cameroon goes home.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Genjo Conan »

Yes, but Cameroon beating Brazil and going home is more entertaining than Brazil beating Cameroon 5-1 or something.

I have no real rooting interest in Team USA, so my goals for the WC are (1) underdogs winning and (2) weird shit happening on the pitch, and Cameroon beating Brazil in the 90th minute off an absolutely bonkers cross meets both of those
Last edited by Genjo Conan on Fri Dec 02, 2022 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Kai lord »

I for one, actually glad that Brazil lost this game, teaches them not to be complacent for the latter part of this tournament.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Svalaksana »

Very interesting World Cup so far, so many surprising results, the stars seem to be aligning for an underdog to take the Cup, perhaps. Excited to see if there are a couple of giant-tumbling matches during this round of 16. Rooting for Japan to go through and see if the USA pulls up one from under their sleeve as well.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Ayu »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:00 pm Watched the first two Japan matches in Japan. First game against Germany when they were down 1 and Germany was moving the ball smoothly, I expected a dismal loss. When they came out aggressive in the second half, my eye balls popped out of my head and found myself shouting with excitement on a quiet Kyoto night. The Costa Rica loss was a severe let down. Back home yesterday, I was watching with distracted attention as they were down against Spain. Went to do some work in my office and came back to find them up 2-1. Shocked.

I don't think you Europeans understand what you saw in Japan. That is a great defensive team, and their goalie is money. They have the discipline to wait for opportunities and strike when the other team makes mistakes. They have several Bundislega players. Watching interviews with them, it was interesting those players say something very Japanese "I wanted to play in Germany to understand their culture and the way they play the game." Japanese have been appropriating culture for centuries and have made it an art form. They see the German style of play with its meticulous approach, which I think resonates with Japanese attention to detail and discipline and wanted to take it for their own. I expect them to continue to improve their play going forward, taking what they learn abroad and making their own style.

I don't know how far they will go, but they are a very dangerous team and should make everyone nervous. They are a very confident and competent bunch. As an aside, I think Japanese have finally shed the guilt of WWII and are re-asserting their killer-Bushido attitudes. You see it in the way their soccer teams carry themselves on the international stage. I don't know how that plays out, but I expect Japan as a whole to be less deferential than they have been since WWII going forward. That might get them into trouble, but for now, it makes for some good soccer teams.
I don't really appreciate confusing soccer with war. Soccer is fun (aside of being suffering), some even call it 'life' :tongue:.
War - on the other hand - is CRIME these centuries and it has nothing to do with soccer.

BUT I agree that Japan played very good. And anybody who thinks, it's an easy target to beat them, is just an ignorant arrogant fool.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by KristenM »

Congrats Netherlands! Good game, tough to see the USA lose, but honestly the Dutch are a great team. I hope that you win the World Cup. :)
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by DNS »

DNS wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:35 pm I'm rooting for:

1. U.S.A.
2. Germany
3. Mexico
4. England
5. Any remaining African nation
Numbers 1, 2, 3 above all eliminated. So now my revised list is:

1. England
2. Senegal *
3. Morocco
4. Japan (I like Zen and Japan has beautiful temples)
5. South Korea (also has some beautiful temples)
6. Argentina (I like Lionel Messi)

* Senegal fun fact: the majority of Senegalese are Sufi Muslim.
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Queequeg »

Ayu wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:12 pm
Queequeg wrote: Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:00 pm Watched the first two Japan matches in Japan. First game against Germany when they were down 1 and Germany was moving the ball smoothly, I expected a dismal loss. When they came out aggressive in the second half, my eye balls popped out of my head and found myself shouting with excitement on a quiet Kyoto night. The Costa Rica loss was a severe let down. Back home yesterday, I was watching with distracted attention as they were down against Spain. Went to do some work in my office and came back to find them up 2-1. Shocked.

I don't think you Europeans understand what you saw in Japan. That is a great defensive team, and their goalie is money. They have the discipline to wait for opportunities and strike when the other team makes mistakes. They have several Bundislega players. Watching interviews with them, it was interesting those players say something very Japanese "I wanted to play in Germany to understand their culture and the way they play the game." Japanese have been appropriating culture for centuries and have made it an art form. They see the German style of play with its meticulous approach, which I think resonates with Japanese attention to detail and discipline and wanted to take it for their own. I expect them to continue to improve their play going forward, taking what they learn abroad and making their own style.

I don't know how far they will go, but they are a very dangerous team and should make everyone nervous. They are a very confident and competent bunch. As an aside, I think Japanese have finally shed the guilt of WWII and are re-asserting their killer-Bushido attitudes. You see it in the way their soccer teams carry themselves on the international stage. I don't know how that plays out, but I expect Japan as a whole to be less deferential than they have been since WWII going forward. That might get them into trouble, but for now, it makes for some good soccer teams.
I don't really appreciate confusing soccer with war. Soccer is fun (aside of being suffering), some even call it 'life' :tongue:.
War - on the other hand - is CRIME these centuries and it has nothing to do with soccer.

BUT I agree that Japan played very good. And anybody who thinks, it's an easy target to beat them, is just an ignorant arrogant fool.
Hi, Ayu. I wasn't comparing soccer with war, though I think sports is in many respects sublimated war impulse and the nationalist tribalism that gets expressed as we root for our home countries and fellow citizens in these international competitions is a form of the tribalism that carries us through violent conflicts. My point is that in many respects, the way national teams play the game reflects their culture. This is probably less and less the case as we become globalized, but I still think it persists. Culture affects us down to the way we experience our bodies - our sense of personal space, our comfort with body contact, the movements and cadence of our walk. We can probably readily see this in the ways we dance. Then there are the ways we experience our social interactions - our sense of expectations for each other, our various sensibilities about mutuality of responsibilities, posture toward cooperation, the way we organize ourselves in relation to each other, etc. I think all of these factors find expression in the way we play our games, soccer included.

Whether you approve or not, Bushido, the code of the warrior, has and continues to be an important cultural phenomenon in Japan. It definitely still plays a part in how people conduct themselves. It was certainly a factor in Japan's conduct in the 1920s-40s when it waged an imperial war. It still plays out in corporate culture and many other aspects of society. To suggest that this warrior culture doesn't factor into Japanese identity now would be denial. In saying this, I don't condone it. It is what it is and whether I or anyone else recognizes it or not it continues to play out. As for the national team - the nickname is Samurai Blue. The reference to warrior culture is explicit.

In bringing up Bushido in relation to the Japanese team - I don't know if you can relate - I think as a German you can - the Japanese have carried a lot of shame and guilt about World War II. There has been a lot of conflict within Japan about the expression of Bushido, and militarism, and even the legacy of the war. A lot of people have been remorseful to the point of becoming radical pacifists. There has also been a significant minority who is not very apologetic about the imperial aggression in the first half of the 20th c. Until now, the pacifist, apologetic posture has prevailed. Its arguably one of the reasons that Japan has been one of the most generous nations in terms of contributing to international development, including the UN. But, as the people who remember the horror of WWII die off, the more aggressive impulses in Japanese culture are ascendant, including rising nationalism and a sense that Japan needs to abolish its "Peace Constitution" which precludes it from having an actual military. These people want to get rid of the pacifist provisions in the constitution and "normalize" the military. I think there are a number of reasons for this aside from forgetting the horrors of war - growing threat of China and N. Korea, but its also coinciding with rising sense that Japan doesn't want to be in this apologetic posture anymore. In any event, I think this change in attitude is expressing in the way the team plays soccer. I'm happy to argue about that and I'm not wed to the idea.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Queequeg »

KristenM wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 6:09 pm Congrats Netherlands! Good game, tough to see the USA lose, but honestly the Dutch are a great team. I hope that you win the World Cup. :)
US never had a chance. The US has no goal scorers or defenders. Just a bunch of midfielders. They also play too white, too suburban, too genteel. When black kids start playing soccer and make it their own (if they ever do), then we'll see actual good teams, not just a bunch of well conditioned athletes.

The Dutch team is great. Not taking anything away from them.

Congrats.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Queequeg »

Ayu wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 3:12 pm ...
BTW, reading commentary coming out of Germany that the German team is no longer elite... seems like over reaction. Maybe the team is not at the level when Germany won the World Cup a few years ago, but the team is still great. As I argued above - the upsets are not so much evidence of great soccer powers falling dramatically, but these up and coming national teams getting better and more competitive.

Anyways... though I'm not as invested in soccer, I am a big supporter of the Buffalo Bills American football team. We were very mediocre to terrible for a generation. I had many days, weeks, and months ruined by their dismal losses. I very much understand how the losses of the teams we root for affect us viscerally, individually and across regions. All the more when we have expectations.

I feel your pain.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: World Cup 2022

Post by Norwegian »

Queequeg wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 8:14 pm They also play too white
Please don't make this into a thing about race or ethnicity. It's infantile and dumb, and has never helped anybody. Whatever you want to say about this or that team, to say that they play "too white", or "too black", etc. is only insulting towards the ethnicities you reference. There's an infinite many other ways of analyzing a team and how it plays, be it through what formation they apply (4-4-2, 4-3-3, etc.), if they're predominantly offensive or defensive, timid or aggressive, plays dirty or fair, relies on set pieces or quick counter attacks, have a lot of possession or no possession, are precise or sloppy, ad infinitum.
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