Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post Reply
nomono
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:00 pm

Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by nomono »

Hi! I am very interested these days in Seon Buddhism. I know that the Heart and Diamond Sutras as well as the Avatamsaka and Lankavatara Sutras are held in high esteem in this tradition. I also learned that Pureland practice and the Pureland Sutras are ecnouraged to practice.

My question would be however the following: Which set of texts or techniques are held to be the highest in the tradition? Some Tibetan schools for example hold the Kalachakra Tantra the highest, some the Hevajra, others texts surrounding Dzogchen texts or the Mahamudra System and so on.

Is there a similar thing in the Seon tradition? Any more deeper teachings, sutras, tantras and commentaries than the already known, for later advanced studies? In some liturgies of the Korean Seon tradition, I saw that the monastics also included more esoteric mantras, normally not seen in Zen (?) - thats one of the reasons why I am asking.

Besides this, in the Tibetan tradition every school has very extensive and detailed set of texts concerning the Nature of Mind for example. Discussing Emptiness and the Nature of Mind in a more concise way - I have yet to find something similar in the Seon or general Zen tradition besides more mystical takes on this topic by Zen Masters like Huangbo.

Somebody know where to look for more info about this topic?

Thank you in advance Brothers and Sisters! :anjali:
User avatar
Zhen Li
Posts: 2743
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:15 am
Location: Tokyo
Contact:

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by Zhen Li »

nomono wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:51 pm Is there a similar thing in the Seon tradition? Any more deeper teachings, sutras, tantras and commentaries than the already known, for later advanced studies? In some liturgies of the Korean Seon tradition, I saw that the monastics also included more esoteric mantras, normally not seen in Zen (?) - thats one of the reasons why I am asking.
What are the "more esoteric mantras, normally not seen in Zen" that you mention? There are many mantras used on a daily basis in most Zen and Chan temples. So these may not actually be "esoteric." A dhāraṇī or mantra by its nature is not esoteric, but I would say that a requirement for initiation is what makes it so.

Gongan and Seon "sayings" collecitons are probably of more importance for deep Seon practice than sutras. See here. Definitely, becoming familiar with the writings of the masters of the tradition like Jinul and Seosan would be helpful, but also their predecessors like Wonhyo.

As for sutras, besides those you mentioned, the Nirvāṇa Sūtra, Saṃdhinirmocana Sūtra, Vajrasamādhi Sūtra, Brahmā Net Sutra, The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment, and Awakening of Faith in the Mahāyāna, have been pretty influential in Korean Buddhism.

I think with Seon, like Zen and Chan, a teacher in-the-flesh is very important. When you identify a teacher and school you want to work with, they will no doubt be able to guide you in the studies that would be required in their tradition.
User avatar
Astus
Former staff member
Posts: 8881
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:22 pm
Location: Budapest

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by Astus »

nomono wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:51 pmWhich set of texts or techniques are held to be the highest in the tradition?
As for texts, Seon (just as Chan) is called a distinct path from those that follow sutras.

'The transmission of the mind by the World Honored One at three sites is the gist of Seon; what was spoken by him over his lifetime is the gate of Doctrine. Therefore it is said, “Seon is the Buddha mind; Doctrine is the Buddha word.”'
(Seonga gwigam, in Collected Works of Korean Buddhism, vol 3, p 58)

In practice that means that there isn't one particular scripture taken as the best or the highest, but rather the whole canon can be used, with a number of texts studied and referenced more regularly.

Regarding the technique, the mainstream method in current Seon is hwadu practice. You can read about that in this online summary: What is Ganhwa Seon?, and there's also this translation published not too long ago: Core Texts of the Sŏn Approach. The Letters of Chan Master Dahui Pujue and The Chan Whip Anthology are also recommended. Plus the works on the topic by Jinul and Hyujeong in the Collected Works of Korean Buddhism.
Any more deeper teachings, sutras, tantras and commentaries than the already known, for later advanced studies?
If you are finished with studying the Heart Sutra, the Diamond Sutra, and the Platform Sutra, then read the Complete Enlightenment Sutra (圓覺經), the Vajrasamadhi Sutra (金剛三昧經), and the Surangama Sutra (楞嚴經).
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
User avatar
Zhen Li
Posts: 2743
Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:15 am
Location: Tokyo
Contact:

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by Zhen Li »

:good: :thumbsup:
User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:02 pm

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by KeithA »

Astus wrote: Fri Oct 07, 2022 3:36 pm
nomono wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:51 pmWhich set of texts or techniques are held to be the highest in the tradition?
As for texts, Seon (just as Chan) is called a distinct path from those that follow sutras.

'The transmission of the mind by the World Honored One at three sites is the gist of Seon; what was spoken by him over his lifetime is the gate of Doctrine. Therefore it is said, “Seon is the Buddha mind; Doctrine is the Buddha word.”'
(Seonga gwigam, in Collected Works of Korean Buddhism, vol 3, p 58)

In practice that means that there isn't one particular scripture taken as the best or the highest, but rather the whole canon can be used, with a number of texts studied and referenced more regularly.

Regarding the technique, the mainstream method in current Seon is hwadu practice. You can read about that in this online summary: What is Ganhwa Seon?, and there's also this translation published not too long ago: Core Texts of the Sŏn Approach. The Letters of Chan Master Dahui Pujue and The Chan Whip Anthology are also recommended. Plus the works on the topic by Jinul and Hyujeong in the Collected Works of Korean Buddhism.
Any more deeper teachings, sutras, tantras and commentaries than the already known, for later advanced studies?
If you are finished with studying the Heart Sutra, the Diamond Sutra, and the Platform Sutra, then read the Complete Enlightenment Sutra (圓覺經), the Vajrasamadhi Sutra (金剛三昧經), and the Surangama Sutra (楞嚴經).
I was going to take a crack at replying to the op, but I couldn't have done it better than this. :good:

The Complete Enlightenment Sutra has an interesting structure. The first chapter, for the sharpest of students, is the shortest, and most succinct. Each chapter afterwards is longer and more verbose, for students needing more explanations.

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
nomono
Posts: 21
Joined: Wed Sep 11, 2019 2:00 pm

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by nomono »

Thank you very much to all who replied! Very helpful! :good:
ItsRaining
Posts: 301
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 7:45 am

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by ItsRaining »

Traditional Curriculum of Korean Seon

Very interesting curriculum of study for Seon monks. This was a traditional curriculum in Korea that was formed out of the 16-18th centuries. I think this list is quite good, it basically presents the foundational sutric and sastric texts that form the basis of East Asian schools that have a sudden and perfect tendency. The Surangama, Perfect Awakening, and the Awakening of Fatih which are all listed here are known as the Two Sutras and One Sastra in China for the uniqueness of their doctrine and the eloquence of their prose. No surprise they are included since they expound the doctrine of sudden practice. Same of the Huayan Sutra, this sutra is closely related to those three texts and similar present a non-gradual practice.

The Chan specific texts are also very good - Admonitions present the entrance to the path, Zongmi and Chinul explains the theoretical aspects of Chan, whilst Dahui and Gaofeng form the practical aspect.

1. Admonitions to Beginners: Raising the intention towards enlightenment and practicing
precepts, meditation and wisdom.
2. Admonitions to the Gray-Robed Monks: Subduing restless affections and safeguarding against
unwholesome action.
3. Dahui’s Letters: shunning unwholesome understandings and revealing correct views.
4. Zongmi’s Chan Preface: Correlating the three traditions (of Chan and learning) and bringing
them back into one.
5. Chinul’s Excerpts: Distinguishing sudden and gradual (approaches to practice) and revealing
ineffable awareness.
6. Gaofeng’s Chan Essentials: Raising great intentions and breaking down the gong’an (literally:
infiltrating into the entrance).
7. The Śūraṃgama Sutra: Abandoning muddy thought-recollections and giving rise to refined
wisdom.
8. The Awakening of Faith: Opening the two gates (of saṃsāra and nirvana) which are based on
the one mind.
9. The Diamond Sutra: Breaking down the two attachments (to self and dharmas) and revealing
the three kinds of emptiness (of self, dharmas, and the view of emptiness itself).
10. The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment: Cutting off ignorance to reveal the Buddha nature.
11. The Huayan Sutra: Gathering the numerous dharmas to illuminate the one mind.

(The Head of the Central Sangha College, Chongbŏm, explaining the traditional
curriculum, 1997)

Source: https://dukespace.lib.duke.edu/dspace/b ... sAllowed=y
User avatar
curtstein
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:34 pm
Location: rockville, maryland, usa
Contact:

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by curtstein »

nomono wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 2:51 pm I saw that the monastics also included more esoteric mantras, normally not seen in Zen (?) - thats one of the reasons why I am asking.
When D.T. Suzuki wrote his "Manual of Zen Buddhism" (first published in 1935), he included a whole chapter on "Dharanis". Nevertheless, in the introduction to that chapter he felt it necessary to claim that "Properly speaking, the dharani has no legitimate place in Zen."

Unfortunately, many in the West have been more influenced by D.T. Suzuki's false assertions about how Zen should be ("properly speaking") practiced than by the reality of how Zen actually is practiced.

The three Dharanis that D.T. Suzuki included in that chapter are still part of mainstream, exoteric Zen practice today, in both the East and the West. Those Dharanis are: (1) The Dharani for Removing Disasters, (2) The Great Compassionate Dharani, and (3) The Usnisavijaya Dharani.
"there's no one here. there's only you and me." leonard cohen
https://www.mindisbuddha.org/
User avatar
KeithA
Posts: 680
Joined: Tue May 24, 2011 11:02 pm

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by KeithA »

ItsRaining wrote: Sun Oct 16, 2022 10:13 pm Traditional Curriculum of Korean Seon

Very interesting curriculum of study for Seon monks. This was a traditional curriculum in Korea that was formed out of the 16-18th centuries. I think this list is quite good, it basically presents the foundational sutric and sastric texts that form the basis of East Asian schools that have a sudden and perfect tendency. The Surangama, Perfect Awakening, and the Awakening of Fatih which are all listed here are known as the Two Sutras and One Sastra in China for the uniqueness of their doctrine and the eloquence of their prose. No surprise they are included since they expound the doctrine of sudden practice. Same of the Huayan Sutra, this sutra is closely related to those three texts and similar present a non-gradual practice.

The Chan specific texts are also very good - Admonitions present the entrance to the path, Zongmi and Chinul explains the theoretical aspects of Chan, whilst Dahui and Gaofeng form the practical aspect.

1. Admonitions to Beginners: Raising the intention towards enlightenment and practicing
precepts, meditation and wisdom.
2. Admonitions to the Gray-Robed Monks: Subduing restless affections and safeguarding against
unwholesome action.
3. Dahui’s Letters: shunning unwholesome understandings and revealing correct views.
4. Zongmi’s Chan Preface: Correlating the three traditions (of Chan and learning) and bringing
them back into one.
5. Chinul’s Excerpts: Distinguishing sudden and gradual (approaches to practice) and revealing
ineffable awareness.
6. Gaofeng’s Chan Essentials: Raising great intentions and breaking down the gong’an (literally:
infiltrating into the entrance).
7. The Śūraṃgama Sutra: Abandoning muddy thought-recollections and giving rise to refined
wisdom.
8. The Awakening of Faith: Opening the two gates (of saṃsāra and nirvana) which are based on
the one mind.
9. The Diamond Sutra: Breaking down the two attachments (to self and dharmas) and revealing
the three kinds of emptiness (of self, dharmas, and the view of emptiness itself).
10. The Sutra of Perfect Enlightenment: Cutting off ignorance to reveal the Buddha nature.
11. The Huayan Sutra: Gathering the numerous dharmas to illuminate the one mind.

(The Head of the Central Sangha College, Chongbŏm, explaining the traditional
curriculum, 1997)

Source: https://dukespace.lib.duke.edu/dspace/b ... sAllowed=y
This is the fruit of Chinul’s fusion of kyo and son (doctrine and practice). First understand the Buddha’s teaching, then awaken to the Buddha’s mind.

_/|\_
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

New Haven Zen Center
User avatar
curtstein
Posts: 145
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2019 8:34 pm
Location: rockville, maryland, usa
Contact:

Re: Highest Texts/Sutras/Tantras for Seon Buddhism?

Post by curtstein »

Here is a link to a very long, detailed review of a book specifically on the question raised in the OP. The book in question is: "Monastic Education in Korea: Teaching Monks about Buddhism in the Modern Age", but Uri Kaplan. The review has very detailed summaries of each part of the book:
https://networks.h-net.org/node/6060/re ... onks-about

Here is an excerpt:
Chapter 1, “The Traditional Curriculum,” provides an overview and analysis of the monastic curriculum in place before the modern period (which is taken up in chapter 2). The eleven texts that make up the curriculum are divided into four categories, with each category also acting as a stage of the curriculum. The first category/stage, “Admonitions literature,” consists of various texts that are studied, such as the Admonitions to Beginners and Admonitions to the Gray-Robed Monks. The former is a collection of three independent essays written by Korean Buddhist teachers, Wŏnhyo, Chinul, and Yaun, only being published together from 1612 onward. The latter is a compilation of 172 short treatises by Chinese Chan, Tiantai, and Pure Land masters first put together in 1313. With its source content spanning centuries and different schools, it is a difficult text for beginners, featuring multiple styles and vernaculars. It also has many references to Confucian instruction and admonition. Attempts were later made to shorten it to the essential treatises but with varying success. Together, the admonitions literature samples a broad range of similar material produced in Chinese Buddhist circles for educating neophytes into the monastic life. Kaplan considers it somewhat striking that no direct Vinaya literature, such as the Dharmagupta Vinaya in Four Sections, which will later be the basis for the novices’ ordination, is not used. Neither are such texts as the Brahmajāla Sūtra for their forthcoming Bodhisattva precepts, or even the Pure Rules of the Chan Monastery, if one considers that to be the natural East Asian (Chan) Buddhist evolution of monastic regulation.
"there's no one here. there's only you and me." leonard cohen
https://www.mindisbuddha.org/
Post Reply

Return to “Seon”