Seven stages of purification

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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Jokingfish
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Seven stages of purification

Post by Jokingfish »

:D can one understand themselve if achieved first stage, the stage of pure conduct? Is there a change if one reaches it, if so, what kind of change? (what about the other stages?)

Thank you :)
muni
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by muni »

Jokingfish wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am :D can one understand themselve if achieved first stage, the stage of pure conduct? Is there a change if one reaches it, if so, what kind of change? (what about the other stages?)

Thank you :)
I think so that the pure conduct is somehow embracing all following other. Or perhaps could be an expression of all? I can only guess that the change is more peaceful, more compassionate.
“Simply let experience take place very freely, so that your open heart is suffused with the tenderness of true compassion.”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knHJq1H51K4
"When we rest in the present moment, a space reveals itself. It is an inner space that is unoccupied by the cloud of thoughts. Without witnessing that space, it is hard for the mind to see beyond its own interpretation of reality."
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Jokingfish
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by Jokingfish »

On what stage does a seeker find non dual insight?
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Ayu
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by Ayu »

Jokingfish wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am :D can one understand themselve if achieved first stage, the stage of pure conduct? Is there a change if one reaches it, if so, what kind of change? (what about the other stages?)

Thank you :)
Do you mean this?
https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki ... rification
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by Ayu »

Jokingfish wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 9:24 am On what stage does a seeker find non dual insight?
Seemingly as soon as all stages are mastered.
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Jokingfish
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Re: Seven stages of purification

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If non dual awareness is found after these stages, which leads to.. then every advaita teacher is at least a steam enterer? (obviously some of them might be lying, but id say most of them are there, and, then seems that to be having (at least) first stage of enlightenment.)
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Jokingfish
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Re: Seven stages of purification

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Ayu wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:15 am
Jokingfish wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am :D can one understand themselve if achieved first stage, the stage of pure conduct? Is there a change if one reaches it, if so, what kind of change? (what about the other stages?)

Thank you :)
Do you mean this?
https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki ... rification
Would one who practices this, tell on what stage one is?
(if one would enter the first stage (the purification of conduct), would one see difference that one became to be on first stage, and would one see difference while advanced to second stage and furthermore?)
(everyone would notice steam entrance, since it is awakening.)

Ty.
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Ayu
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by Ayu »

Jokingfish wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:40 am
Ayu wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:15 am
Jokingfish wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am :D can one understand themselve if achieved first stage, the stage of pure conduct? Is there a change if one reaches it, if so, what kind of change? (what about the other stages?)

Thank you :)
Do you mean this?
https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki ... rification
Would one who practices this, tell on what stage one is?
(if one would enter the first stage (the purification of conduct), would one see difference that one became to be on first stage, and would one see difference while advanced to second stage and furthermore?)
(everyone would notice steam entrance, since it is awakening.)

Ty.
I have no idea.
Probably questions about realizations have to be posed to realized people.
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Jokingfish
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Re: Seven stages of purification

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Jokingfish wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:50 am If non dual awareness is found after these stages, which leads to.. then every advaita teacher is at least a steam enterer? (obviously some of them might be lying, but id say most of them are there, and, then seems that to be having (at least) first stage of enlightenment.)
I've read on steam entrance, so advaita people don't have that according to Buddhism. I wonder what do they have, then, well, some insight, but definitely lower than first stage. Could be some from these purification stages, and then could be that non duality can emerge lower than stream entrance.
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Jokingfish wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am :D can one understand themselve if achieved first stage, the stage of pure conduct? Is there a change if one reaches it, if so, what kind of change? (what about the other stages?)

Thank you :)
Dharma is not a cookie recipe.
EMPTIFUL.
An inward outlook develops outward insight.
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by Aemilius »

Jokingfish wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 7:27 pm
Jokingfish wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:50 am If non dual awareness is found after these stages, which leads to.. then every advaita teacher is at least a steam enterer? (obviously some of them might be lying, but id say most of them are there, and, then seems that to be having (at least) first stage of enlightenment.)
I've read on steam entrance, so advaita people don't have that according to Buddhism. I wonder what do they have, then, well, some insight, but definitely lower than first stage. Could be some from these purification stages, and then could be that non duality can emerge lower than stream entrance.
Buddha has pointed put that it is difficult to know another person, whether he is enlightened or not. This matter is discussed in at least two sutras. In these translations of Thanissaro Bhikkhu there is the expression "person of integrity", satpurusha in sanskrit.

Cula-punnama Sutta: The Shorter Discourse on the Full-moon Night
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu


"I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Savatthi in the Eastern Monastery, the palace of Migara's mother. And on that occasion — the uposatha of the fifteenth, the night of a very full moon — he was sitting out in the open with the community of monks. Then, having surveyed the silent community of monks, he addressed them: "Monks, could a person of no integrity know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity'?"

"No, lord."

"Good, monks. It's impossible, there's no way, that a person of no integrity would know of a person of no integrity: 'This is a person of no integrity.'

"Could a person of no integrity know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity'?"

"No, lord."

"Good, monks. It's impossible, there's no way, that a person of no integrity would know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity.'

"A person of no integrity is endowed with qualities of no integrity; he is a person of no integrity in his friendship, in the way he wills, the way he gives advice, the way he speaks, the way he acts, the views he holds, & the way he gives a gift."

complete text https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html


Sappurisa Sutta: A Person of Integrity
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

"A person endowed with these four qualities can be known as 'a person of integrity.' Which four?

"There is the case where a person of integrity, when asked, doesn't reveal another person's bad points, to say nothing of when unasked. Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions, he is one who speaks of another person's bad points not in full, not in detail, with omissions, holding back...

"Then again, a person of integrity, when unasked, reveals another person's good points, to say nothing of when asked. Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions, he is one who speaks of another person's good points in full & in detail, without omissions, without holding back...

"Then again, a person of integrity, when unasked, reveals his own bad points, to say nothing of when asked. Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions, he is one who speaks of his own bad points in full & in detail, without omissions, without holding back...

"Then again, a person of integrity, when asked, doesn't reveal his own good points, to say nothing of when unasked. Furthermore, when asked, when pressed with questions, he is one who speaks of his own good points not in full, not in detail, with omissions, holding back...

"Monks, a person endowed with these four qualities can be known as 'a person of integrity.'"

complete sutra https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Aemilius
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Re: Seven stages of purification

Post by Aemilius »

Jokingfish wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:40 am
Ayu wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:15 am
Jokingfish wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 6:40 am :D can one understand themselve if achieved first stage, the stage of pure conduct? Is there a change if one reaches it, if so, what kind of change? (what about the other stages?)

Thank you :)
Do you mean this?
https://encyclopediaofbuddhism.org/wiki ... rification
Would one who practices this, tell on what stage one is?
(if one would enter the first stage (the purification of conduct), would one see difference that one became to be on first stage, and would one see difference while advanced to second stage and furthermore?)
(everyone would notice steam entrance, since it is awakening.)

Ty.
According to certain sutras Buddha sometimes refused to answer the question whether a particular person or ascetic is an arhat or not. In reply he gave the teaching that it is difficult to know another person, that it takes a long time to know an other person, and that one should not jump to conclusions hastily. The teaching of how to know a person is found for example in the Paṭisalla Sutta, Seclusion:
"Then not long after the seven coiled-hair ascetics, seven Jain ascetics, seven cloth-less ascetics, seven one-cloth ascetics, & seven wanderers had passed, King Pasenadi Kosala went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he said to the Blessed One, 'Of those in the world who are arahants or on the path to arahantship, are these among them?' "

Patisalla sutta, Seclusion https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn ... .than.html


Another sutra about knowing a person, Thana sutta, Traits:
"Monks, these four traits may be known by means of four [other] traits. Which four?

"It's through living together that a person's virtue may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.

"It's through dealing with a person that his purity may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.

"It's through adversity that a person's endurance may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.

"It's through discussion that a person's discernment may be known, and then only after a long period, not a short period; by one who is attentive, not by one who is inattentive; by one who is discerning, not by one who is not discerning.

Thana sutta, Traits https://accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an ... .than.html
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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