Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

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Jokingfish
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Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Jokingfish »

Or do they eternally cut this attachment from themselves? Emphasis on word eternally.
Knotty Veneer
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Knotty Veneer »

Would depend on the monk/nun. But sexual desire is a very basic part of being human. I doubt anyone can be totally without it. One can however learn to live a life that is not controlled by it. That I think is what most folks who successfully live a celibate life do.
This is not the wrong life.
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Aemilius
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Aemilius »

It depends on what they achieve during this life. If they achieve Stream-entry or Once-returning, they will come back from one to seven times into this world (or into some other world on similar level of human existence) before they attain Arhatship or rebirth in a Shuddhavasa(pure-realm).

If they attain the awakening of Bodhicitta in this life, it depends on the Boddhisattva vows and Bodhicitta-aspirations that they have been doing in this life. And also on the Bodhisattva aspirations that they will do in their future lives (in a human level of existence or in some other level of existence).
Last edited by Aemilius on Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
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They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
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Soma999
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Soma999 »

They can sublimate this energy. They do not reject it. They use it in another way.

If they just « block » this energy, there is no specific benefits per se.
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Jokingfish
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Jokingfish »

Aemilius wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:05 am It depends on what they achieve during this life. If they achieve Stream-entry or Once-returning, they will come back from one to seven times into this world (or into some other world on similar level of human existence) before they attain Arhatship or rebirth in a Shuddhavasa(pure-realm).

If they attain the awakening of Bodhicitta in this life, it depends on the Boddhisattva vows and Bodhicitta-aspirations that they have been doing in this life. And also on the Bodhisattva aspirations that they will do in their future lives (in a human level of existence or in some other level of existence).
Did buddha after full awakening had any desire for love making? Or anyone on his or higher level? Zero?
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Aemilius
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Aemilius »

I think it is futile to try to answer that. If you want the buddho-dogmatic answer you can find it somewhere else. But You can be sure that the Three realms do exist. If you are habitually in the lower levels of Kama-loka, it may seem impossible that any higher realms would exist in any real sense. But in fact they do exist. Even in Kamaloka there is a gradual refinement of sexuality. These levels of Kamaloka (desire-realm) are described in the Shurangama sutra and in Abhidharma Kosha Bhashyam. When you are in Rupa-loka (realm of pure form) or in Arupa-loka (formless realm), you are certainly beyond sexual desire. You have to experience it personally. It is really pointless to speculate why the experience of Rupaloka or Arupaloka would end, or how, when and why it would end.
The buddho-dogmatic answer is that Nirvana-dhatu or the samadhi of cessation is eternal. We let it be so. But this has also been questioned, in AKB for example. But again, just attain it it, and you'll see for yourself how its really is.

Here is an interesting sutta about the higher levels in Kamaloka, and about overcoming desire. Nanda Sutta: About Nanda
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
Last edited by Aemilius on Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:33 pm, edited 3 times in total.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Archie2009
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Archie2009 »

"Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?"
Why else would there be child sex abuse in Buddhist monasteries?
Last edited by Ayu on Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: The term "Tibetan" was deleted. Reason: Why single out Tibetan monasteries? I think sexual abuse can and has occurred in every Buddhist tradition and other organised religions.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by climb-up »

Of course.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Archie2009 »

climb-up wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:32 pmOf course.
Does the pope shit in the woods?
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by climb-up »

Archie2009 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:36 pm
climb-up wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:32 pmOf course.
Does the pope shit in the woods?
😂
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Shinjin »

all the time. monk life is tough.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by DNS »

climb-up wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:37 pm
Archie2009 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:36 pm
climb-up wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 3:32 pmOf course.
Does the pope shit in the woods?
😂
I thought it was the bear that shits in the woods.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by DNS »

I heard from one monk that roughly, about half of all monks who disrobe, i.e., go back to lay life, do so because of lust for a partner.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Konchog Thogme Jampa »

It’s actually really hard being a monk there’s so many things which lay people do to relax which you can’t do like listen to music. Everything then focus’ on the strength of your practice. Certainly brought forth the afflictions which you then have to work with.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Archie2009 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:20 pm
"Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?"
Why else would there be child sex abuse in Buddhist monasteries?
Celibacy does not make people into pedophiles.

Some claim that it provides cover for them, but given that these things exist in religions with no celibacy, and in totally non-religious institutions the link is tenuous.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

What about the non-actual monks?
EMPTIFUL.
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Archie2009
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Archie2009 »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:01 am
Archie2009 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:20 pm
"Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?"
Why else would there be child sex abuse in Buddhist monasteries?
Celibacy does not make people into pedophiles.

Some claim that it provides cover for them, but given that these things exist in religions with no celibacy, and in totally non-religious institutions the link is tenuous.
Isn't the point that the perpetraor's sexuality demands an outlet? I think many monk abusers would prefer women to boys/men as well.
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Archie2009 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:52 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:01 am
Archie2009 wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 2:20 pm

Why else would there be child sex abuse in Buddhist monasteries?
Celibacy does not make people into pedophiles.

Some claim that it provides cover for them, but given that these things exist in religions with no celibacy, and in totally non-religious institutions the link is tenuous.
Isn't the point that the perpetraor's sexuality demands an outlet? I think many monk abusers would prefer women to boys/men as well.
No, there is no evidence whatsoever that people being celibate somehow creates pedophiles, and nearly everything we know of pedophilia and tendency towards sexual predation indicates that it develops early and would not be caused by repression of sexual desire, not having sex etc. The idea that celibacy “causes” sexual dysfunction or abuse is entirely fictional AFAIK.

The only vaguely approachable argument made in this vein that I have ever seen is that cultures of celibacy make a place for pedophiles to hide. I personally do not believe this, as you can look into many non-celibate religious institutions and find the same stuff.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Ayu »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 9:30 am
Archie2009 wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 8:52 am
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Sep 25, 2022 3:01 am

Celibacy does not make people into pedophiles.

Some claim that it provides cover for them, but given that these things exist in religions with no celibacy, and in totally non-religious institutions the link is tenuous.
Isn't the point that the perpetraor's sexuality demands an outlet? I think many monk abusers would prefer women to boys/men as well.
No, there is no evidence whatsoever that people being celibate somehow creates pedophiles, and nearly everything we know of pedophilia and tendency towards sexual predation indicates that it develops early and would not be caused by repression of sexual desire, not having sex etc. The idea that celibacy “causes” sexual dysfunction or abuse is entirely fictional AFAIK.

The only vaguely approachable argument made in this vein that I have ever seen is that cultures of celibacy make a place for pedophiles to hide. I personally do not believe this, as you can look into many non-celibate religious institutions and find the same stuff.
[A side tooic went here:]
https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.p ... 14#p642914
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Re: Do actual Buddhist monks ever crave sex?

Post by Kai lord »

Jokingfish wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 12:38 pm
Aemilius wrote: Sat Sep 24, 2022 11:05 am It depends on what they achieve during this life. If they achieve Stream-entry or Once-returning, they will come back from one to seven times into this world (or into some other world on similar level of human existence) before they attain Arhatship or rebirth in a Shuddhavasa(pure-realm).

If they attain the awakening of Bodhicitta in this life, it depends on the Boddhisattva vows and Bodhicitta-aspirations that they have been doing in this life. And also on the Bodhisattva aspirations that they will do in their future lives (in a human level of existence or in some other level of existence).
Did buddha after full awakening had any desire for love making? Or anyone on his or higher level? Zero?
Of course, in fact, prior to His complete awakening, He even had a divine consort whose legendary beauty made Shiva, the mightiest of all devas in the form realm, to be enamored.

At Buddha's level, desire is no longer seen as a repulsive attribute to be getting rid of, its viewed as a mean to achieve higher form of wisdom.
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