Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

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Tez
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Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Tez »

I just got scammed out of £500

It was a telephone scam. They called me up claiming to be from my bank (they had the right name of bank and my full name) and said I'd been defrauded. After ten minutes on the phone they'd gotten enough details to get the money off me, but I realized just in time and managed to frieze my account before they got more. I talked to the bank, my account is frozen, and I'm going to need all new details that'll take ages. I never thought I'd fall for it. I was aware of scams and had read about them, and the whole time I knew it didn't sound right, but somehow they managed to walk me along. Never think you're to smart to be fooled, and if you get a call from your bank asking for details, don't hand them anything, hang up and call the bank yourself.

I'm feeling upset, angry, foolish and vulnerable, and I'm worried this'll hurt my trust in people. Buddhism asks us to show compassion in moments like these, but I don't know how I'm going to do that when I've been so badly hurt. I don't know this person, who set out to take everything I had, and didn't care what the consequences would be. He's out there hurting people, and his actions will end with people losing their money, thir security, and cause so much damage. How do adhere to buddhist principles? I don't know the person, so how can I forgive them? What does Buddhism teach in situations like this?

Thanks for reading
Toenail
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Toenail »

Just reflect on the results of actions like these. He will be reborn in terrible suffering. Poor, no food or clothing, people will hate him for no apparent reason, he will live in a desert and so on. Also 500 is nothing and am I correct that you will probably get the money back? Cheer up. If that shakes your faith or good will you have probably been a bit naive. There are many people out there that will rob you, will rape you, will kill you for no reason. There are evil beings out there. There are wicked beings out there. There are ignorant beings out there that dont know about cause and effect. Thats Samsara.
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Tez wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:11 pm I'm feeling upset, angry, foolish and vulnerable, and I'm worried this'll hurt my trust in people. Buddhism asks us to show compassion in moments like these, but I don't know how I'm going to do that when I've been so badly hurt. I don't know this person, who set out to take everything I had, and didn't care what the consequences would be. He's out there hurting people, and his actions will end with people losing their money, thir security, and cause so much damage. How do adhere to buddhist principles? I don't know the person, so how can I forgive them? What does Buddhism teach in situations like this?

Thanks for reading
The basis for compassion (in the buddhist understanding of compassion) doesn’t rest on whether other beings are good people on not. In fact, more “messed up” they are with greed and dishonesty and do forth, the worse off they are.
You don’t have to believe in karmic retribution or rebirth. That’s a nice way that many people console themselves, but it’s not really the point. It’s not about cosmic vengeance.

You can bet that £500 is already gone and the thief wants more. What a pathetic state of mind he is in. And yes, he’s hurting others. Beings only do that when they are suffering (which means there are a lot of suffering beings out there!) and because of that suffering.

What is interesting to look at now, is your own mind, and about how your compassion has been shaken now because of what happened to you.

My late teacher (lama) used to say that it is this kind of thing that really puts one’s practice to the test, and in this way, Vajrayana students are supposed to regard attackers and thieves and so on as their teachers too. Not that you go looking for problems, but in the sense that they really help you to know where your mind is, and about how much more there is to work on.

By the way, sorry about you getting ripped off. It’s very easy to get scammed these days.
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by muni »

Thanks for sharing! In your difficulty, you help other to take care!

And then, aren't we all already enlightened when we are on our safe cushion, are listening to beloved masters, are surrounded by friends, are praised how wise and compassionate we are?

In that way we need not so much be aware of our own minds' (re)actions. This means not you should let this happen, but regarding compassion this is challenging to see how our mind -feelings then start to lash out and cause us even more suffering. I admit that it is really difficult to see on such moments what plays in own mind, what is getting a cold shower or bomb in its face... and then keep compassion. Perhaps because it is their karma - effects.

You are not alone in this.

May you be alright, Tez.
Knotty Veneer
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Knotty Veneer »

I am sorry to hear what happened to you, Tez. I work in Cyber Security and more and more we are seeing the type of scam you suffered is becoming more common than actual hacking - it's called social engineering in the business.

Although it is too late to help you - I think it is good policy if you ever receive a call like this to always hang up and call your bank (or whoever the caller is purporting to be from) from the official contact number on the bank's website - never a number or website address given to you by the caller.

The scammers will try to confuse and hurry you to follow their instructions but don't fall for it - take your time always and contact the bank separately. It is the only way to be sure. Nothing is so serious it can't wait 5 minutes to double-check.
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Jokingfish
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Jokingfish »

To find compassion one needs to see that everyone can suffer. Maybe off topic but a couple of times i sensed as in 'smelled' my dogs, siblings being, and i felt them, it was beautiful, love, therefore compassion. The scammer can also suffer, which is sad, life can be bad, its reality, but it can be good too. So know that everyone can get bad situations.
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seeker242
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by seeker242 »

Dhammapada 3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

Dhammapada 4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
Hatred is abandoned and compassion is cultivated according to where you are putting the mind's attention. If all your attention is going to "he robbed me" then you won't be able to cultivate compassion. All that will do is kill compassion and feed ill will/hatred. If all your attention is going to "he is suffering and will only suffer more because of these actions" then you will be able to cultivate compassion and subdue ill will/hatred. Of course it's not always so black and white but it's always the case that you feed either one with attention. If you don't have any control over where your attention is going, well that's what meditation is for. That's why Buddhism is really a practice rather than just a bunch of ideas. Cultivating compassion and subduing ill will/hatred takes practice. And the practice is really a practice in where you are directing your attention.
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Ah! Sorry to hear this.

I guess one of the worst things about such scams is that one feels so stupid for falling for it. It is better to be robbed in a way as you can at least feel like it wasn't your own fault too.

The best you can do is use it for mindtraining. Wish that nobody else needs to get robbed ever again, that this exhausted all of that karma. You can also rejoice a bit as you have repaid a karmic debt. That is good.

That is what I attempt to do whenever I find myself suffering from misfortune/sickness and there is a gap in that suffering.

I hope you can live comfortably without those 500 pounds. Also kudos for quick thinking and freezing your account.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

For those who do virtuous actions,
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For those who do non-virtuous actions,
that becomes suffering indeed.

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futerko
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by futerko »

seeker242 wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 1:16 pm
Dhammapada 3. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who harbor such thoughts do not still their hatred.

Dhammapada 4. "He abused me, he struck me, he overpowered me, he robbed me." Those who do not harbor such thoughts still their hatred.
Hatred is abandoned and compassion is cultivated according to where you are putting the mind's attention. If all your attention is going to "he robbed me" then you won't be able to cultivate compassion. All that will do is kill compassion and feed ill will/hatred. If all your attention is going to "he is suffering and will only suffer more because of these actions" then you will be able to cultivate compassion and subdue ill will/hatred. Of course it's not always so black and white but it's always the case that you feed either one with attention. If you don't have any control over where your attention is going, well that's what meditation is for. That's why Buddhism is really a practice rather than just a bunch of ideas. Cultivating compassion and subduing ill will/hatred takes practice. And the practice is really a practice in where you are directing your attention.
:good:

I would add that my own way of viewing this is that on the one hand he has directly harmed you by depriving you of food on the table, but on the other, if you consider your relationship to the object - he has undermined his peace of mind by placing the money above such considerations and that feeling can also be transmitted to you by such actions - it is up to you to consider what your relationship is to the money itself and whether you will get dragged down into that or whether you place your own peace of mind above your relationship to the cash.
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Tukaram
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Tukaram »

You do not have to know them to forgive them. Forgiveness is for you - not for them. Just know that they are having a hard life, making bad choices, and will likely pay for it... sooner or later. With a stranger it is easy because you just intersected for a time, and move on.

I had a house burglarized and was upset with the violated feeling, not upset about any of the stuff that was taken (and insurance replaced it all anyway). I have a pretty good suspicion who did it, and her family sent her to rehab. I never had hard feelings towards her (or whoever did it). I just had to get over the creeped out feeling of someone burglarizing my house. That just took some time to get over it.
Tez
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Tez »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 3:01 am
Tez wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:11 pm I'm feeling upset, angry, foolish and vulnerable, and I'm worried this'll hurt my trust in people. Buddhism asks us to show compassion in moments like these, but I don't know how I'm going to do that when I've been so badly hurt. I don't know this person, who set out to take everything I had, and didn't care what the consequences would be. He's out there hurting people, and his actions will end with people losing their money, thir security, and cause so much damage. How do adhere to buddhist principles? I don't know the person, so how can I forgive them? What does Buddhism teach in situations like this?

Thanks for reading
The basis for compassion (in the buddhist understanding of compassion) doesn’t rest on whether other beings are good people on not. In fact, more “messed up” they are with greed and dishonesty and do forth, the worse off they are.
You don’t have to believe in karmic retribution or rebirth. That’s a nice way that many people console themselves, but it’s not really the point. It’s not about cosmic vengeance.

You can bet that £500 is already gone and the thief wants more. What a pathetic state of mind he is in. And yes, he’s hurting others. Beings only do that when they are suffering (which means there are a lot of suffering beings out there!) and because of that suffering.

What is interesting to look at now, is your own mind, and about how your compassion has been shaken now because of what happened to you.

My late teacher (lama) used to say that it is this kind of thing that really puts one’s practice to the test, and in this way, Vajrayana students are supposed to regard attackers and thieves and so on as their teachers too. Not that you go looking for problems, but in the sense that they really help you to know where your mind is, and about how much more there is to work on.

By the way, sorry about you getting ripped off. It’s very easy to get scammed these days.
Thanks Padma. That's an interesting idea about this person being a teacher, and it's changed my perspective. I agree seeing it how my compassion had been impacted because it happened to me is narrow. It reminds me of the wheel in Boetheus' Consolation of Philosophy, when we only complain when it happens to us. I think I was still shaken by what happened, and I usually try to see other people's suffering, but you still made a good point. Thanks
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Tukaram wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:19 pm You do not have to know them to forgive them.
And you don’t have to forgive someone to have compassion for them.
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Tez
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Tez »

Thank you everyone for you kind words, advise, and wisdom, it's been really interesting to read them all so far and have been really helpful. I feel better than I did yesterday, and feel it won't impact me negatively in the long term. I think I was still shaken and needed to reach out for advice, so if I came across as to focused on myself it was being in shock. I don't feel negatively towards this person anymore, apart from being sad someone is willing to hurt another, and I hope they will find a path that brings joy rather than suffering. In a way, he may have taught me more about showing compassion, and it's my own reactions that will determine what happens next.
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Tukaram
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Tukaram »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:24 pm
Tukaram wrote: Tue Sep 20, 2022 2:19 pm You do not have to know them to forgive them.
And you don’t have to forgive someone to have compassion for them.
True, and you do not have to know them to have compassion either.
I was addressing the original question 'I don't know the person, so how can I forgive them?'
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Tez wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:11 pm I don't know the person, so how can I forgive them? What does Buddhism teach in situations like this?
“Forgiveness” as we generally regard it in the west, is very much Christian concept related to the idea that God forgives sinners. If God does it, it must be the right thing to do, etc etc etc.
And, for many people it can be a kind of liberating experience, especially if they are carrying the burden of a traumatic event.

The thing about that concept of forgiveness which may not align exactly with the Buddhist view, is that forgiveness is a dualistic approach: “I” will either forgive or not forgive “them” meaning that as the victim, I am in a position to pass judgement over that other person. In a sense, one is positioning oneself in a kind of superior position. One can forgive the other person because one feels that one is better than the other person: You are honest, they are not.

Of course, there are plenty of times during the day when we forgive others for very little things, without even consciously thinking about it.
Usually we know to just let little passing things go and to not let them bother us. Of course, stealing a lot of money from you is not some trivial matter that is easily ignored. And knowing that the bad guys are out there preying on others is likewise infuriating.

Ultimately, the buddhist approach to resolving this is to realize that the violator’s motives for the evil actions they commit are also the same motives for all the actions, good or bad, that all beings engage in: we want to be happy.

It is because of ignorance about where the true source of happiness is found, that beings engage in every manner of futile, damaging, evil and violent activity. And if they should “know better” this is even worse. Whatever suffering motivates a person to swindle others will probably stay with that swindler for their whole life. They will never be content. Their criminal activity may even land them in jail or put them into an early grave.

But if you are a Buddhist practicing the Dharma teachings, you know that the suffering from being swindled will be over soon. Real peace of mind comes from working with the mind itself.

So basically, rather than trying to forgive people, we realize that all of us are in the same samsaric boat, and as Buddhists we strive to attain realization in order to end our own suffering as well as the suffering of others. I want other to be free from suffering precisely so that they don’t steal, or wage war, or try to hurt themselves, or me, or others, in any way.

When a dog is in physical pain, and you try to help
It, very often the first thing it will do is to snap at you, or try to bite you. But, if you feel compassion for the suffering animal, you won’t feel anger towards it, you’ll feel sorry for it. You understand why it tries to bite you, and you will wish for it to be free from suffering.

It’s like that with the buddhist approach to those who violate us and others. You may not like them at all, and you may never forgive them, but you understand the cause of their actions is their own confusion and suffering. And you wish that, for the benefit of all beings, that they will be free from suffering and free from the causes of suffering.
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Jokingfish
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Jokingfish »

Doesn't compassion unfolds same as understanding of yourself, naturally? Atm i feel somewhat as if i would have no intention to harm others, like it would be impossible to be angry at any enemy, since i understand something about life, and i acknowledge that others can feel bad and i just don't want that.

Point is that this point of view came from some understanding of simply reality, which makes me better, and from that, more compassionate.

So is it true that compassion makes wisdom, and wisdom makes compassion?
Soma999
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Soma999 »

I am sorry for your loss. I hope you can get back your money. Sometime banks have understanding,

That being said, what is done is done. What you may do is using this situation in your dharma practice. For exemple, think you are repaying debts of the past, giving to karmic creditors and as such preventing bigger problems in the future.

You can also think that whatever has been stolen will be given back to you in a better way and form.

Years ago as a student i had a little job, and someone took it, someone i helped find a job. I could be upset. I chose to pray « there is no loss, a door will open to something better ». In a few days, without even doing research, i got a job with less work, more interesting and with a better pay. Would that have happened if i curse this person ?

Know something good can come out of this situation, even if you don’t know what it is.

« Mat this situation turns out for the best for me and all. »

To remove the poison of hatred, express gratitude for all that you have. For exemple, your eyes, your hand, your foot, a roof to sleep… this is immense chance, and not everyone have it. When people lose their health, they realise how happy they were to have good health.

Gratitude will remove the poison.

Now for compassion, this is a choice and a training. Meeting a sangha, doing practice, all this help to establish a strong compassion. This is a training. Wisdom is required also for a good manifestation of compassion. It is a training. It takes time also. But day after day it gets stronger.

Also, see the first person who may need your compassion is yourself. Be kind to yourself whatever happened.
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Aemilius
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Aemilius »

Tez wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:11 pm I just got scammed out of £500

It was a telephone scam. They called me up claiming to be from my bank (they had the right name of bank and my full name) and said I'd been defrauded. After ten minutes on the phone they'd gotten enough details to get the money off me, but I realized just in time and managed to frieze my account before they got more. I talked to the bank, my account is frozen, and I'm going to need all new details that'll take ages. I never thought I'd fall for it. I was aware of scams and had read about them, and the whole time I knew it didn't sound right, but somehow they managed to walk me along. Never think you're to smart to be fooled, and if you get a call from your bank asking for details, don't hand them anything, hang up and call the bank yourself.

I'm feeling upset, angry, foolish and vulnerable, and I'm worried this'll hurt my trust in people. Buddhism asks us to show compassion in moments like these, but I don't know how I'm going to do that when I've been so badly hurt. I don't know this person, who set out to take everything I had, and didn't care what the consequences would be. He's out there hurting people, and his actions will end with people losing their money, thir security, and cause so much damage. How do adhere to buddhist principles? I don't know the person, so how can I forgive them? What does Buddhism teach in situations like this?

Thanks for reading
You will benefit from this misfortune, if you think that you have donated it. Every time it comes to your mind, just think you have given this sum away.
Hope for their best in life, if you can't forget that person or see him as emptiness.
Read the Jataka stories, which tell about the longterm benefit if giving away things (that you love and are attached to).
svaha
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They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Hazel
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Hazel »

These sort of scams are why we must remain compassionate. We have to be compassionate if not for the scammer then for their victims. Samsara isn't gonna empty itself!
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Re: Scammed out of money, my compassion has been shaken

Post by Jokingfish »

I read what i said and i think my advices weren't that good. Sorry if mislead.

Good day :)
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