Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

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Boomerang
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Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Boomerang »

I once heard someone say that if you're a Dzogchenpa, you shouldn't make tantric connections with gurus who do dharma protector pujas which punish people for practicing Dzogchen.

I know there's one controversial and widely banned "protector" practice with the initials D.S. that harms people for studying outside of the Gelug school. Is this the only "protector" that hurts Dzogchenpas? Or are there other, more popular ones I should be aware of?
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Kai lord »

Dharmapalas only target serious Samaya breakers and those individuals who threaten or harm Dharma in general.
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Soma999 »

Protectors are not demons. They protect the dharma. A way to protect the dharma is also to help inexperienced people, like most of us, to practice correctly, find the right persons and materials, and connect with pure streams of yogis..

As it has been said, they use wrathful activity against very negative energy that threatens the dharma and practitionners.

Also, a very good way to deal with misguided persons is to help them to be correctly guided.
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Lingpupa »

Soma999 wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:02 am Protectors are not demons.
True. But the problem is that those who warn against him who shall not be named say that he is not a proper protector, but is in fact a demon.
Make of it what you will. :shrug:
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Könchok Thrinley »

Honestly, I would worry more about my inner demons than any spirit. I am not saying they don't exist, however I myself am enough to properly ruin my life. No other demon hodls such power. :D

Not to mention that if you practice sincerely and take refuge, develop bodhicitta you are automatically protected by all the buddhas and bodhisattvas.
“Observing samaya involves to remain inseparable from the union of wisdom and compassion at all times, to sustain mindfulness, and to put into practice the guru’s instructions”. Garchen Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Malcolm »

Boomerang wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:25 am I once heard someone say that if you're a Dzogchenpa, you shouldn't make tantric connections with gurus who do dharma protector pujas which punish people for practicing Dzogchen.

I know there's one controversial and widely banned "protector" practice with the initials D.S. that harms people for studying outside of the Gelug school. Is this the only "protector" that hurts Dzogchenpas? Or are there other, more popular ones I should be aware of?
If you are a Dzogchen practitioner you should avoid connections with gurus who even have doubts about Dzogchen Teachings.
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!

—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Boomerang
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Boomerang »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:12 pm
Boomerang wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:25 am I once heard someone say that if you're a Dzogchenpa, you shouldn't make tantric connections with gurus who do dharma protector pujas which punish people for practicing Dzogchen.

I know there's one controversial and widely banned "protector" practice with the initials D.S. that harms people for studying outside of the Gelug school. Is this the only "protector" that hurts Dzogchenpas? Or are there other, more popular ones I should be aware of?
If you are a Dzogchen practitioner you should avoid connections with gurus who even have doubts about Dzogchen Teachings.
What about gurus who believe Dzogchen is good in theory, but in reality is not beneficial for most people because most people aren't wangpo rab (have maturity from previous lives)?
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Gyurme Kundrol
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Gyurme Kundrol »

Boomerang wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:20 pm What about gurus who believe Dzogchen is good in theory, but in reality is not beneficial for most people because most people aren't wangpo rab (have maturity from previous lives)?
Sounds like doubt about Dzogchen with extra steps.
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by rupam »

Boomerang wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:25 am I once heard someone say that if you're a Dzogchenpa, you shouldn't make tantric connections with gurus who do dharma protector pujas which punish people for practicing Dzogchen.

I know there's one controversial and widely banned "protector" practice with the initials D.S. that harms people for studying outside of the Gelug school. Is this the only "protector" that hurts Dzogchenpas? Or are there other, more popular ones I should be aware of?
Those dharmapalas you worry about are most often just thought forms, and if you have no foundation in western esotericism, you might need to search what a thought form is. They can't do much usually to people they have no connection to. They can do something to you if you have empowerment and a relationship with them. The Voldemort of the dharmapalas is a different story and is a scary one.

Do you think those dharmapalas can destroy/liberate people who will not hesitate to point a gun at Dalai Lama? lol

What do you think was actually happening to Tibet when China took over Tibet and introduced technology and better quality of life to the poor, illiterate Tibetans? All those siddhas and vidyadharas ran.
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by PeterC »

Boomerang wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:25 am ... Is this the only "protector" that hurts Dzogchenpas? Or are there other, more popular ones I should be aware of?
People spend altogether too much time worrying about protectors. If you do your practice seriously, they will support you, and you will have nothing to worry about. If you want to do something for them it only takes a couple of minutes. And if you're familiar with the three main Dzogchen protectors, why would you even be concerned about other mundane spirits?
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Archie2009 »

PeterC wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:00 am
Boomerang wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:25 am ... Is this the only "protector" that hurts Dzogchenpas? Or are there other, more popular ones I should be aware of?
People spend altogether too much time worrying about protectors. If you do your practice seriously, they will support you, and you will have nothing to worry about. If you want to do something for them it only takes a couple of minutes. And if you're familiar with the three main Dzogchen protectors, why would you even be concerned about other mundane spirits?
:good:
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Mr. Meseeks »

Buddha is the protector.
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Malcolm »

rupam wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:37 am
What do you think was actually happening to Tibet when China took over Tibet and introduced technology and better quality of life to the poor, illiterate Tibetans?
Since when did any settler colonialism offer a “better quality of life” to an indigenous population?
Vases, canvas, bucklers, armies, forests, garlands, trees
houses, chariots, hostelries, and all such things
that common people designate dependent on their parts,
accept as such. For Buddha did not quarrel with the world!

—— Candrakīrti. MAV 6:166
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by stoneinfocus »

rupam wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:37 am What do you think was actually happening to Tibet when China took over Tibet and introduced technology and better quality of life to the poor, illiterate Tibetans? All those siddhas and vidyadharas ran.
Is this sarcasm?
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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:48 pm
rupam wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:37 am
What do you think was actually happening to Tibet when China took over Tibet and introduced technology and better quality of life to the poor, illiterate Tibetans?
Since when did any settler colonialism offer a “better quality of life” to an indigenous population?
Even if it did (which it doesn’t) it wouldn’t make up for stealing a people’s right to self determination, which is one of the biggest impacts to quality of life on any oppressed group of people.
Don’t you see what’s wrong with the world today? Oh Everybody wants somebody to be their own piece of clay.

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Re: Are there dharma protectors that punish people for studying Dzogchen – besides D.S.?

Post by Ayu »

Malcolm wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 3:48 pm ...
stoneinfocus wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:21 pm...
Is this sarcasm?
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:42 pm...


Please, everybody, the quote you were responding to, had a different context than it seems, if you drag it out of its context.
Yes, I would read that last sentence as a sarcastic comment to what rupam wrote before:
rupam wrote: Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:37 am
Boomerang wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:25 am I once heard someone say that if you're a Dzogchenpa, you shouldn't make tantric connections with gurus who do dharma protector pujas which punish people for practicing Dzogchen.

I know there's one controversial and widely banned "protector" practice with the initials D.S. that harms people for studying outside of the Gelug school. Is this the only "protector" that hurts Dzogchenpas? Or are there other, more popular ones I should be aware of?
Those dharmapalas you worry about are most often just thought forms, and if you have no foundation in western esotericism, you might need to search what a thought form is. They can't do much usually to people they have no connection to. They can do something to you if you have empowerment and a relationship with them. The Voldemort of the dharmapalas is a different story and is a scary one.

Do you think those dharmapalas can destroy/liberate people who will not hesitate to point a gun at Dalai Lama? lol

What do you think was actually happening to Tibet when China took over Tibet and introduced technology and better quality of life to the poor, illiterate Tibetans? All those siddhas and vidyadharas ran.
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