What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

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Leo Rivers
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What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by Leo Rivers »

WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP OF THESE 2 SETS OF DHARMAGUPTAKA MATERIALS?

I have become interested because Pure Land, Chen and Forest Tradition not only use Dharmaguptaka Vinaya for but Pure Land and Chen use it for a Mahayana career.

AND it is said the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya IS a Mahayana Vinaya if used in conjunction with a Bodhisattva Vow.

There are two items identified in web searches for the words “Dharmaguptaka Pratimoksha”. What is the relationship of the materials they provide. Both are Vinaya.

First:
Dharma, Dr. Wonji, and Ven. Dr. Sunyananda Dharma. 2016. The Dharmaguptaka Bhiksu Pratimoksha with Ordination Ceremony. Kansas City: Buddha Dharma University Press.

Image

purchased at: https://www.lulu.com/shop/ven-dr-sunyan ... pageSize=4

an equivalent of the second folio of the Brahma Net Sutra, a list of the major and minor infractions by category.

and

Second:

Dharmaguptaka Vinaya | An English translation of ...
https://dharmaguptakavinaya.wordpress.com

Much Sutra-like material.
———————————

And wait. If you open your browser in the next 60 minutes!

Final Revised Pratimoksha A5 PDF.pmd
[url]http://users.libero.it › seza › revised_pratimoksha
PDF[/url]
of many venerable monks who have practiced in Plum Village during the past twenty years. REVISEd pratimoksha. Recitation Ceremony of the Bhikshu Precepts


AND

Dharmaguptaka Vinaya Bhikṣu Poṣadha and Rites
https://thubtenchodron.org/wp-content/u ... ecured.pdf

AND last but not least

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... i_8s46MiIo :namaste:
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Zhen Li
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Re: What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by Zhen Li »

Leo Rivers wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:40 pm an equivalent of the second folio of the Brahma Net Sutra, a list of the major and minor infractions by category.
I think this is the key to your question. Where does it say that the Dharmaguptaka vinaya has an equivalent of the second folio of the Brahma Net Sutra? Is it mentioned in the book you linked?
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Leo Rivers
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Re: What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by Leo Rivers »

The first fascicle of the Brahma Ner is a kind of digest of the path of the Avatamsaka sutra.
The second fascicle is a recitation of the major and minor precepts.

This second fascicle covers the same ground as a section of the Bodhisattva Bhumi.

Both of these precept collections were important between the 5th and 6th centuries in creating mahayana ordinations on the Silk Route and the groundwork for Chinese Buddhism. This would be the innovation of a Mahayana Ordination in the area that would choose the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya.

Interestingly it was said the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya was Mahayana if one added a Bodhisattva Vow!

I spoke in a clumsy way here and forgive me saying folio not fascicle! :oops:
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Re: What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by FromTheEarth »

Leo Rivers wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:35 am Interestingly it was said the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya was Mahayana if one added a Bodhisattva Vow!
I wonder about where specifically this was stated. It reads strange to me. I know that Daoxuan, the most prominent proponent and commentator of the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya in China, once declared that the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya has Mahayana tendencies/it includes indications of certain Mahayana doctrines. Perhaps you were referring to this?
Daoxuan's assertion receives scholarly criticisms, though. For instance, one of the five reasons he used to justify his assertion is this: the Hinayanist Abhidharma claims that we are aware of objects through our organs/indriyas (sorry for the H-word). In contrast, the Mahayanist doctrine is that we are aware of objects through consciousnesses. Certain parts of the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya align with the later view. Therefore, there is some aspect in which the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya is compatible with Mahayana.
But of course, the above dichotomy is an over-simplification, and is untrue whatsoever (there are non-Mahayana schools and scholars within Sarvastivada that do not hold the view attributed to them as a whole).
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Leo Rivers
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Re: What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by Leo Rivers »

I'll look it up. I think the reference was someone who may have put words into his mouth. Thanks for making me try to clarify this.

By the way - I have just read Bhikkhu Sujato's Sects & Sectarianism and the distinctions between nikayas seem insignificant, what you'd expect from migration to new environments.




Publisher ‎Santipada (January 13, 2011)
Paperback ‎176 pages
ISBN-13 ‎978-1921842061
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Re: What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by cdpatton »

Leo Rivers wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:40 pm WHAT IS THE RELATIONSHIP OF THESE 2 SETS OF DHARMAGUPTAKA MATERIALS?
They are both translations from the same Chinese translation of the Dharmaguptaka Vinaya. It's a fairly large collection of materials like the entire Theravada Vinaya, with bhiksu and bhiksuni precepts and other subjects. The Chinese adopted this vinaya early on and still use it for ordinations.
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Re: What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by Leo Rivers »

Ah. There is a whole literature with rules and stories and doctrine here. These are both from the "Dharmaguptaka Library" so to speak.

Thanks :D
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Re: What is the Relationship of These 2 Sets of Dharmaguptaka Materials?

Post by cdpatton »

Leo Rivers wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:43 pm Ah. There is a whole literature with rules and stories and doctrine here. These are both from the "Dharmaguptaka Library" so to speak.

Thanks :D
Yes, exactly. My understanding is that Mahayana monks and nuns would ordain in the traditional Vinayas and maybe even live among the others who weren't interested in Mahayana. BTW, there are several Vinayas that were translated to Chinese: Sarvastivada, Mulasarvastivada, Dharmaguptaka, Mahisasaka, Mahsamghika. It's a goldmine for comparative Vinaya studies ... if a person can read them.
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