What is and what is not meditation?

[Nalanda]

We know the sit in the lotus position and meditate one. But where do we demarcate what is and what is not meditation? For example, are these meditations also?

• reciting the sutras

• chanting

• dharani practice

• prostrations

• mindful eating

• calligraphy/poetry

• Buddhist/deity yoga

• Tantric practices

• liturgical rituals/sadhana/pujas

[PadmaVonSamba]

Whatever you do is meditation if it returns the mind to undistracted awareness.

[Gyurme Kundrol]

In general there are only three kinds of meditation, which are mindfulness, shamatha and vipassana. Everything else is more or less built on this structure. That is, mindfulness is the practice of recognizing distraction and returning to the object of meditation. Shamatha is the practice of one pointedly remaining on the object of meditation. Vipassana is the insight into the nature of reality, emptiness, the mind, etc...

Mantra meditation, visualizations, tonglen, Dzogchen, Mahamudra, and much more all basically fit this description, with obvious nuances and specifics that need to be adhered to in order to be practicing these in a qualified way.

[Tao]

>Whatever you do is meditation if it returns the mind to undistracted awareness.

100% agree.

And the other way: it doesnt matter what you do, even if you are told it's the highest meditation, if it doesnt include undistracted awareness in your case, it's not meditation at all. For example doing postrations but distracted.

[Arnoud]

What it is not is trying to rest in a state of blank calm, pleasant though it may be.

[Inedible]

People can do whatever they want and call it meditation. It is only when talking with other people that they have to agree on a standard. The people who are talking about it can agree with each other on what counts and they don't have to justify it until more people are brought in. So when someone tells me that they do their gardening or knitting to meditate it doesn't do any good for me to disagree. I don't have to agree, but it is easier to keep my mouth shut.

[Johnny Dangerous]

Meditation is familiarization with reality, there are all kinds of methods to do that.

[leech_noggin]

Meditation is a method. We manipulate awareness.

It comes in 2 basic varieties. Concentration.and Vipassana

[maxxu108]

>Whatever you do is meditation if it returns the mind to undistracted awareness.

100% agree.

And the other way: it doesnt matter what you do, even if you are told it's the highest meditation, if it doesnt include undistracted awareness in your case, it's not meditation at all. For example doing postrations but distracted.

I also agree 100% with "Whatever you do is meditation if it returns the mind to undistracted awareness." But one should watch out and not misunderstand this. I personally think that the commitment to a formal practice is important. I know people who think, just being mindful during the day is sufficient, why should I commit to a formal practice? For a sage, this might true, but for the ordinary people like me, having a formal practice is very helpful.
I am also not sure if I interpret the sentence correctly “…it's not meditation at all. For example doing prostrations but distracted.”
For me it is a part of the practice to have distracted mind. When I do prostrations, my mind is filled up with distractions. I notice this and come back to my prostrations. I see nothing wrong in it, rather this is the practice
Don’t take my two cents too seriously. Just thoughts, which popped up, when I read the discussions. Wishing you all the best on your journey

[Knotty Veneer]

Whatever you do is meditation if it returns the mind to undistracted awareness.

[Aemilius]

Buddhaghosha put it nicely in Path of Purification, that it is difficult to define meditation, if you try to do it, you will end up with more problems than you had to begin with. Simply put it is concentration on what is wholesome.

[Tao]

>When I do prostrations, my mind is filled up with distractions. I notice this and come back to my prostrations.

So your practice is being aware while prostratiing but yet you dont master it?. It's ok. It's the same in all other kind of meditations, seeing the process of loosing it and going back to undistracted awareness.

About being mindful and not sitting, problem is you have to maintain the right view not being just neutrally aware. If your practice is mostly being aware while not sitting you can do great progress if you keep the right views.

There's even the book "Budhahood without meditation" de Dudjom Lingpa, basically focused in the right views for your not-seated practice.

But neutral mindfulness is not enough, that's right. But just the same way samatha alone is not enought.

Here we're talking about what is meditation, not about what practices create a complete path. Samatha maybe meditation, is seated practice and it's not enough either.

Best wishes

[KeithA]

I always liked: "Notice a lack of attention, return to a state of attention". There is no meditation practice that doesn't involve some form of notice and return, at least that I can think of.

_/|\_

[PadmaVonSamba]

I kind of look at it this way:
Suppose you are doing ‘formal’ sitting meditation for an hour. Shamatha, zen, whatever.

When you first learn to do this, you are very distracted. Maybe about 98% of the time, thoughts arise, you let them go, and return to your focus.

Maybe later on, in a month or maybe in 10 years, it will be just the opposite: you can focus for 98% of the time without distraction, and only 2% of the time you are distracted.

Either way, your mind is either still either focused, or it is distracted. Only the percentages are different. But it’s still what we call “meditation” because the active practice is returning the mind to an undistracted state, which is supposedly its original state.

So, throughout the day, maybe you are doing laundry or cooking or walking the dog or whatever, we don’t call that “meditation”. But the reason why it isn’t meditation isn’t because you’re not sitting on a cushion. It’s because you aren’t consciously (mindfully) bringing the mind back to the breath (or whatever your focus is).

As long as you bring the mind back (and you can train yourself to do this pretty much continuously) then I would say that you are practicing meditation regardless of any distractions that may be occurring. And of course, when you are not on the cushion, and you are busy with various things, that distraction may be about 98% of the time. Same as when you began. So, it’s “highly-distracted meditation” but it can still be meditation if you are remembering to bring the mind back.

[master of puppets]

thank you

[Tao]

>There is no meditation practice that doesn't involve some form of notice and return, at least that I can think of.

Mature practice involve being aware of thoughts and not returning anywhere. Just being there with them. And being there just the same way when they are not. That's for example. mature Mahamudra or Shikantaza meditation.

But the common point keeps being undistracted awareness.

Best regards.

[KeithA]

>There is no meditation practice that doesn't involve some form of notice and return, at least that I can think of.

Mature practice involve being aware of thoughts and not returning anywhere. Just being there with them. And being there just the same way when they are not. That's for example. mature Mahamudra or Shikantaza meditation.

But the common point keeps being undistracted awareness.

Best regards.

“Just being there with them” is word salad for returning to a state of attention. Thoughts come and go, without attachment. If we notice an attachment, we let it go, returning to state of attention.

[curtstein]

Recently I came across a quote from Zen Master Sheng Yen: "Chanting IS practicing." This was an automated (google) translation from Chinese. The original is: 念佛就是修行.

I think the most important part (for the present discussion) is the two characters that together are translated as "practicing" - these are the last two characters: 修行. According to wiktionary, these two characters mean: "to cultivate one’s spiritual virtues; to train oneself; to work at self-improvement" (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/修行). According to another site that is good for looking up Chinese words: "to devote oneself to spiritual development (esp. Buddhism or Daoism); to devote oneself to perfecting one's art or craft" (https://www.purpleculture.net/dictionar ... s/?word=修行)

The rest of the quote is pretty straightforward.

念佛 is, of course, nianfo/nembutsu/yeombul, which can refer to chanting in general (not just to recitation of "namu amitabul").

就是 means "is indeed" or "emphatically is" or just "IS".

Here is the page this comes from (in Chinese): https://www.dharmaschool.com/course71.html

[Tao]

> “Just being there with them” is word salad for returning to a state of attention. Thoughts come and go, without attachment. If we notice an attachment, we let it go, returning to state of attention.

No, it's just expressing what happens when you reach certain maturity on meditation, you will have lots of description on that for example on second and third Mahamudra yogas (simplicity and one-taste). But also in the correct description of Shikantaza.

There's a big difference between:

-getting lost on thought and returning to an awareness tht is not lost on them
-being there aware, sometimes watching having thoughts, sometimes not. And always aware of it. Not lost at all at any moment.

Wish you live it for yourself in the future. You will see the big, big difference.

Best wishes.

[MaitreyaBuddha]

Whatever you do is meditation if it returns the mind to undistracted awareness.

Whatever meditation may occur, is also of the same 'substance' as the undistracted awareness...

or the Ground,

itself!