Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)

[Stigg]

I roughly remember people honouring Master Hsi Yun (who lived to 120 yrs old), but as far as accounts go, the status was bestowed by his followers rather than him claiming enlightenment.

Did you mean Master Hsing Yun? If so, he's still alive, 94 years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsing_Yun

Or is Hsi Yun a different person? Do you have a link to a bio about him?

Sorry I was referring to Master Xu Yun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xuyun

[Stigg]

I would stay away from a teacher who makes claims of their attainments.

Usually it is the followers who make the claims. In the case of Mahayana masters, it's rare to find a genuine teacher claiming enlightenment, probably due to the bhumis being "almost" impossible to achieve in this human life.

Most of the enlightenment stories come from Zen and Tibetan sects which have the "enlightenment in a single lifetime" model. Although these schs are also considered "Mahayana", their system structure tend to look positively at sudden awakenings, reincarnated tulkus as manifestations of enlightened beings etc."

[Johnny Dangerous]

I would stay away from a teacher who makes claims of their attainments.

Usually it is the followers who make the claims. In the case of Mahayana masters, it's rare to find a genuine teacher claiming enlightenment, probably due to the bhumis being "almost" impossible to achieve in this human life.

Most of the enlightenment stories come from Zen and Tibetan sects which have the "enlightenment in a single lifetime" model. Although these schs are also considered "Mahayana", their system structure tend to look positively at sudden awakenings, reincarnated tulkus as manifestations of enlightened beings etc."

Enlightenment in one lifetime and is all over the place in the Pali Canon, including the “sudden” variety. Granted, it’s a different conception enlightenment, but the idea is not particularly unique to Vajrayana or Zen.

[Malcolm]

Enlightenment in one lifetime and is all over the place in the Pali Canon, including the “sudden” variety. Granted, it’s a different conception enlightenment

Not really. Freedom means being free from afflictions. This is same in Hinayāna and Mahāyāna, the insight that burns away the afflictions is fundamentally the same, and the same fetters are relinquished at the path of seeing of both vehicles. The real difference is whether the practitioner aspires to full buddhahood or not. The latter is typically is said to require eons of practice gathering the two accumulations in order to gain (a limited species of) omniscience as well as freedom. This is the reason why sudden awakening is contentious in Mahāyāna schools, with some like Chan/Zen, Dzogchen, and Mahāmudra, accepting the concept, where as other schools, generally Indian-based general Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna reject the idea. In the case of the latter, they merely theorize that the special methods of Vajrayāna allow one to gather the two accumulations required for buddhahood in a single lifetime.

[Nicholas2727]

Hopefully it is not too far off topic but how far on the Bhumi's does common Mahayana say a practitioner can go in a single life time? I know it is said that full Buddhahood takes eons when following the common Mahayana path, not sure how this applies to the Bhumis.

[ThreeVows]

Enlightenment in one lifetime and is all over the place in the Pali Canon, including the “sudden” variety. Granted, it’s a different conception enlightenment

This is the reason why sudden awakening is contentious in Mahāyāna schools, with some like Chan/Zen, Dzogchen, and Mahāmudra, accepting the concept

In some cases even here though it may be a somewhat nuanced discussion. For example, Dudjom Lingpa says,

"The great, sublime path that brings all sentient beings to the grounds and paths of liberation is called the swift path of the clear-light Great Perfection. This is the most sublime of all Dharmas. It is a general synthesis of all the paths, the goal of all yānas, and an expansive treasury of all secret mantras. However, only those who have stored vast collections of merit in many ways, over incalculable eons, will encounter this path. They will have aspired repeatedly and extensively to reach the state of perfect enlightenment, and they will have previously sought the path through other yānas, establishing propensities to reach this path. No others will encounter it."

So although it may be sudden in this particular bodymind, that's not to say that one just sort of randomly happens to stumble upon it without any previous causes. As such you might argue that there is a gradual process to reach sudden realization, perhaps.

[Malcolm]

Hopefully it is not too far off topic but how far on the Bhumi's does common Mahayana say a practitioner can go in a single life time?

Depends on who you ask. According Chan/Zen, just one lifetime.

[Nicholas2727]

Hopefully it is not too far off topic but how far on the Bhumi's does common Mahayana say a practitioner can go in a single life time?

Depends on who you ask. According Chan/Zen, just one lifetime.

What about other Mahayana schools? Such as Tien'Tai, Hua Yen, or Sutric Tibetan Buddhism?

[Malcolm]

Hopefully it is not too far off topic but how far on the Bhumi's does common Mahayana say a practitioner can go in a single life time?

Depends on who you ask. According Chan/Zen, just one lifetime.

What about other Mahayana schools? Such as Tien'Tai, Hua Yen,

Yes, I think so.

or Sutric Tibetan Buddhism?

Strong no.

[Kai lord]

So although it may be sudden in this particular bodymind, that's not to say that one just sort of randomly happens to stumble upon it without any previous causes. As such you might argue that there is a gradual process to reach sudden realization, perhaps.

Thats also the opinion of Jigten Sumgon who argued that there are no such thing as sudden type, every practitioners should be considered as gradual type since they get to practice Mantrayana and liberated within their single lifetime after eons of accumulating merits and purification practices

[Malcolm]

So although it may be sudden in this particular bodymind, that's not to say that one just sort of randomly happens to stumble upon it without any previous causes. As such you might argue that there is a gradual process to reach sudden realization, perhaps.

Thats also the opinion of Jigten Sumgon who argued that there are no such thing as sudden type, every practitioners should be considered as gradual type since they get to practice Mantrayana and liberated within their single lifetime after eons of accumulating merits and purification practices

There are all kinds of different opinions. The Dzogchen opinion is different.

[Kai lord]

So although it may be sudden in this particular bodymind, that's not to say that one just sort of randomly happens to stumble upon it without any previous causes. As such you might argue that there is a gradual process to reach sudden realization, perhaps.

Thats also the opinion of Jigten Sumgon who argued that there are no such thing as sudden type, every practitioners should be considered as gradual type since they get to practice Mantrayana and liberated within their single lifetime after eons of accumulating merits and purification practices

There are all kinds of different opinions. The Dzogchen opinion is different.

While I understand why the Chinese buddhists especially the northern/southern Chan debated over sudden vs gradual issue for centuries, I found the Tibetans' debate over the same issue amusing since they practically teach that even the laziest and most dull student can gain Enlightenment within 16 lifetimes simply by keeping their samaya pure as opposed to eons of hard practice in the common vehicle.

[Nicholas2727]

Depends on who you ask. According Chan/Zen, just one lifetime.

What about other Mahayana schools? Such as Tien'Tai, Hua Yen,

Yes, I think so.

or Sutric Tibetan Buddhism?

Strong no.

Is there a highest Bhumi that one can reach in one life according to Tibetan Sutrayana? or can one not even enter into the Bhumis without Vajrayana practice according to Tibetan Buddhism?

[Kai lord]

What about other Mahayana schools? Such as Tien'Tai, Hua Yen,

Yes, I think so.

or Sutric Tibetan Buddhism?

Strong no.

Is there a highest Bhumi that one can reach in one life according to Tibetan Sutrayana?

For Gelugpa, its 10th (the first part) . For Kagyu, Sakya and Nyingma, its 11th. For Jonang, no idea.......

or can one not even enter into the Bhumis without Vajrayana practice according to Tibetan Buddhism?

Can enter.

[ThreeVows]

There are all kinds of different opinions. The Dzogchen opinion is different.

Dudjom Lingpa of course is specifically talking about Dzogchen in the quote shared.

[Malcolm]

Thats also the opinion of Jigten Sumgon who argued that there are no such thing as sudden type, every practitioners should be considered as gradual type since they get to practice Mantrayana and liberated within their single lifetime after eons of accumulating merits and purification practices

There are all kinds of different opinions. The Dzogchen opinion is different.

While I understand why the Chinese buddhists especially the northern/southern Chan debated over sudden vs gradual issue for centuries, I found the Tibetans' debate over the same issue amusing since they practically teach that even the laziest and most dull student can gain Enlightenment within 16 lifetimes simply by keeping their samaya pure as opposed to eons of hard practice in the common vehicle.

We are already liberated. We just need to understand that. Awakening isn't something that can be attained, since awakening is our primordial state.

[Malcolm]

There are all kinds of different opinions. The Dzogchen opinion is different.

Dudjom Lingpa of course is specifically talking about Dzogchen in the quote shared.

I didn't read your quote: but while we are at it:

The stage of liberation is first.

-- String of Pearls Tantra.

[kirtu]

Many years ago it was not uncommon to find stories of (usually Jodo Shinshu) people who saw Amitabha at death. Unfortunately I can no longer find these stories. They were often recounted by sons or nephews (or other relatives) who were present when the person died and who had themselves not been practitioners at the time of the death of the practitioner. There was even a specific name for people whose faith (shinjin) had been so deep. Of course all of these stories were completely non-canonical.

[Kai lord]

We are already liberated. We just need to understand that. Awakening isn't something that can be attained, since awakening is our primordial state.

Thats very Dogen of you.

[Aemilius]

Hopefully it is not too far off topic but how far on the Bhumi's does common Mahayana say a practitioner can go in a single life time? I know it is said that full Buddhahood takes eons when following the common Mahayana path, not sure how this applies to the Bhumis.

Lankavatara sutra, Chapter Two, section L :

"This, Mahāmati, is what characterises the two kinds of intellect, in accordance with which the Bodhisattvas, thoroughly mastering the signs of egolessness of persons and things, and, by means of knowledge of imagelessness, becoming conversant with the stage of examination and practice, will attain the first stage [of Bodhisattvahood] and acquire one hundred Dhyānas. Attaining the excellent Samādhis, they will see one hundred Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, they will enter into one hundred kalpas that were prior to the present and also into those that will follow the present, they will illuminate one hundred Buddha-lands, and, illuminating one hundred Buddha-lands, they will understand the signs belonging to the higher stages; and by virtue of the most exalted vows they will manifest wonderful powers, they will be baptised (abhisheka) by [the Buddhas] when they reach the stage of Dharmameghā (law-cloud); and realising the inmost realm of the Tathagatas, they will be provided with things which are closely connected with the ten inexhaustible vows; and, in order to bring all beings into maturity, they will shine out in various forms with the rays of transformation; they will be quite absorbed in the bliss of self-realisation."

section LVI:
"Thereupon the Blessed One said: In accordance with the authoritative teachings in which there are no discriminations, Mahāmati, let the Bodhisattva-Mahāsattva retire by himself to a quiet secluded place, where he may reflect within himself, not relying on anybody else, but by means of his own inner intelligence, in order to discard erroneous views and discriminations, make successive advances and exert himself to finally enter upon the stage of Tathagatahood. This, Mahāmati, is the characteristic feature of the inner realisation to be gained by means of noble wisdom."