Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Are there any accounts of enlightened practitioners (lay/ordained, dead/alive) in Mahayana? I roughly remember people honouring Master Hsi Yun (who lived to 120 yrs old), but as far as accounts go, the status was bestowed by his followers rather than him claiming enlightenment. Is there anyone else? It's rather hard to find a self-proclaimed awakened practitioner in Mahayana (except for Zen, where almost everyone has some sort of awakening).
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
So many......basically any practitioners who died and remained in the state of Thukdam for days and other more advanced displays of parinirvana....You can easily google about the list of people who achieved that in the recent decades.
They were all considered liberated.
They were all considered liberated.
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Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
You can search the web with Inka (jp) or Yinke (ch), which means kind of formal recognition of seeing the Dharmata, or whatever you want to call it.
In the Pureland schools there are different signs that will appear when the person dies (and is reborn in the pureland). You can search this with "death bed signs pureland school".
Some teachers in the Mahayana that have been or are considered to be enlightened: Yogi C. M. Chen, Upasaka Lu Kuan Yu, Ven. Hsuan Hua, Hsing Yun,..
An old discussion about Yinke https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=38198
In the Pureland schools there are different signs that will appear when the person dies (and is reborn in the pureland). You can search this with "death bed signs pureland school".
Some teachers in the Mahayana that have been or are considered to be enlightened: Yogi C. M. Chen, Upasaka Lu Kuan Yu, Ven. Hsuan Hua, Hsing Yun,..
An old discussion about Yinke https://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?t=38198
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
In Mahayana, at what point can we say that a person is enlightened?
a) on the 8th bhumi?
b) 10th bhumi? upon attaining complete Buddhahood?
c) any bhumi level
d) other
a) on the 8th bhumi?
b) 10th bhumi? upon attaining complete Buddhahood?
c) any bhumi level
d) other
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.
CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.
CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Based on my experience, Its a complex question that varying from the path and tradition that you follow. You will receive lots of answers that might contradict each other.
According to the sutras, 8th bhumi is first pure bhumi where all your afflictive obstructions are removed just like Arhats and that bodhisattva will never lose his direct perception of emptiness even in post meditation state like a 24/7 thing. Thats why they are said to be on the irreversible path to Buddhahood and even receive a prophecy of future Buddhahood from Buddha(s)a) on the 8th bhumi?
10th bhumi is the first stage of Buddhahood but all the obstructions to omniscience are not completely removed and complete Buddhahood is either 11th or 13th or 16th bhumi depending on which tradition and practices that you followb) 10th bhumi? upon attaining complete Buddhahood?
Basically if you want to reduce confusion, the main idea is to focus on the obstructions that are removed rather than bhumi.c) any bhumi level
To give you an idea on how complicated this issue can be. In many Vajrayana traditions, if you attained the first bhumi within this life, all your afflictive obstructions will be removed instead of doing that in the eight bhumi as described in the sutras. And this life will essentially be your final karmic rebirth in Samara.d) other
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
How can you measure which bhumi you or someone else are on? or Who can measure it for you?
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Signs of accomplishment.....as written and described like the four aspects of approach and accomplishment
Or it can be as simple as a drastic change in behaviour towards wholesomeness and greater display of renunciation and compassion
Or it can be as simple as a drastic change in behaviour towards wholesomeness and greater display of renunciation and compassion
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Haha, what in the world? For real?Kai lord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:09 pm
To give you an idea on how complicated this issue can be. In many Vajrayana traditions, if you attained the first bhumi within this life, all your afflictive obstructions will be removed instead of doing that in the eight bhumi as described in the sutras. And this life will essentially be your final karmic rebirth in Samara.
Also, what are the traditions that say 11th, 13th, and 16th bhumis?
Why not 100? At what point is this going to be perfected if we have so many numbers to play with?
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.
CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.
CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Yes, its the irony of life that the more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know.Nalanda wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:57 pmHaha, what in the world? For real?Kai lord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:09 pm
To give you an idea on how complicated this issue can be. In many Vajrayana traditions, if you attained the first bhumi within this life, all your afflictive obstructions will be removed instead of doing that in the eight bhumi as described in the sutras. And this life will essentially be your final karmic rebirth in Samara.
Sutras mention 11th, tantras mention 13th and 16th. Some systems in East Asian buddhism like Hua yua even has s system of 52 bhumis.Also, what are the traditions that say 11th, 13th, and 16th bhumis?
Some like Dogen, do away with whole concept of "bhumi' and insist on one single bhumi.
At any rate, you need to study those systems individually to know how they arrive at those numbers.
Thats why we should focus on the removal of obstructions, not bhumis which is a system of measurement based on the former.Why not 100? At what point is this going to be perfected if we have so many numbers to play with?
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
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Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Huayan and other East Asian schools accept 52 stages of the Bodhisattva path, of which, only the last 10 are referred to as bhumis.Kai lord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:48 pmYes, its the irony of life that the more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know.Nalanda wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 10:57 pmHaha, what in the world? For real?Kai lord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 12:09 pm
To give you an idea on how complicated this issue can be. In many Vajrayana traditions, if you attained the first bhumi within this life, all your afflictive obstructions will be removed instead of doing that in the eight bhumi as described in the sutras. And this life will essentially be your final karmic rebirth in Samara.
Sutras mention 11th, tantras mention 13th and 16th. Some systems in East Asian buddhism like Hua yua even has s system of 52 bhumis.Also, what are the traditions that say 11th, 13th, and 16th bhumis?
Some like Dogen, do away with whole concept of "bhumi' and insist on one single bhumi.
At any rate, you need to study those systems individually to know how they arrive at those numbers.
Thats why we should focus on the removal of obstructions, not bhumis which is a system of measurement based on the former.Why not 100? At what point is this going to be perfected if we have so many numbers to play with?
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Yes its a very unique way by the East Asian Buddhism to classify and breakdown the path of accumulation and application into 42 different stages.ItsRaining wrote: ↑Sun Aug 07, 2022 2:54 amHuayan and other East Asian schools accept 52 stages of the Bodhisattva path, of which, only the last 10 are referred to as bhumis.Kai lord wrote: ↑Sat Aug 06, 2022 11:48 pmYes, its the irony of life that the more you learn the more you realize how much you don't know.
Sutras mention 11th, tantras mention 13th and 16th. Some systems in East Asian buddhism like Hua yua even has s system of 52 bhumis.Also, what are the traditions that say 11th, 13th, and 16th bhumis?
Some like Dogen, do away with whole concept of "bhumi' and insist on one single bhumi.
At any rate, you need to study those systems individually to know how they arrive at those numbers.
Thats why we should focus on the removal of obstructions, not bhumis which is a system of measurement based on the former.Why not 100? At what point is this going to be perfected if we have so many numbers to play with?
Tibetans did the breakdown of that two paths into 9 +12= 21 different phases .
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Actually there are 52 stages of the path in the Avatamsaka/Gandavyuha/Shurangama system of the path:
1-10 stages
Ten Faiths
11-20 stages
Ten abidings
21-30 stages
The ten practices
31-40 stages
Ten dedications (of merit)
41-50 stages
Ten stages (bhumi)
51. Equal enlightenment Bodhisattva
52. Marvelous enlightenment Bodhisattva
53. Buddha
with more detail in http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=184929407
and in https://lotus-happiness.com/52-stages-b ... practices/
These stages can further be divided into causal and resultant stages, and thus get 104 stages. Previously the last three stages were three stages of the Buddha. The above seems to be the present consensus.
1-10 stages
Ten Faiths
11-20 stages
Ten abidings
21-30 stages
The ten practices
31-40 stages
Ten dedications (of merit)
41-50 stages
Ten stages (bhumi)
51. Equal enlightenment Bodhisattva
52. Marvelous enlightenment Bodhisattva
53. Buddha
with more detail in http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=184929407
and in https://lotus-happiness.com/52-stages-b ... practices/
These stages can further be divided into causal and resultant stages, and thus get 104 stages. Previously the last three stages were three stages of the Buddha. The above seems to be the present consensus.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Thanks, I'm looking for pure Mahayana figures (not counting the Vajrayana/Shingon sects). I think others had a good point: Which level bhumi is considered enlightened? If we are to consider only a fully awakened Buddha as enlightened, i would think no one would dare lay claim to that? Maybe essentially there are no enlightened beings as far as this goes.Kai lord wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:59 am So many......basically any practitioners who died and remained in the state of Thukdam for days and other more advanced displays of parinirvana....You can easily google about the list of people who achieved that in the recent decades.
They were all considered liberated.
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Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Did you mean Master Hsing Yun? If so, he's still alive, 94 years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsing_Yun
Or is Hsi Yun a different person? Do you have a link to a bio about him?
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Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
There’s no such thing as ‘pure Mahayana’ figures…I guess you could count Indian pandits and yogis.Stigg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:03 amThanks, I'm looking for pure Mahayana figures (not counting the Vajrayana/Shingon sects). I think others had a good point: Which level bhumi is considered enlightened? If we are to consider only a fully awakened Buddha as enlightened, i would think no one would dare lay claim to that? Maybe essentially there are no enlightened beings as far as this goes.Kai lord wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:59 am So many......basically any practitioners who died and remained in the state of Thukdam for days and other more advanced displays of parinirvana....You can easily google about the list of people who achieved that in the recent decades.
They were all considered liberated.
There are all kinds of people today declaring themselves fully enlightened…in general they are pretty sketchy!
Usually when a teacher is thought to have a significant level of realization, that reputation comes from the teachers students.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
Well, Vajrayana is the resultant Mahayana vehicle. But if you insist on the Causal Mahayana vehicle. We have historically Asanga, Nagarjuna. Dignaga, etc, who are Arya bodhisattvas.Stigg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:03 amThanks, I'm looking for pure Mahayana figures (not counting the Vajrayana/Shingon sects).Kai lord wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:59 am So many......basically any practitioners who died and remained in the state of Thukdam for days and other more advanced displays of parinirvana....You can easily google about the list of people who achieved that in the recent decades.
They were all considered liberated.
I already answered that (sort of). If you consider liberation from uncontrolled rebirth in the six realms of Samara as enlightenment. Then the removal of all afflictive obstacles and their tendencies like Arahants is the key to that.I think others had a good point: Which level bhumi is considered enlightened?
What bhumi that will be, differs from schools to traditions,
Why do you need them to make the claim? As I already hinted before, just look at the way and attitude they approach death to know their level of accomplishment.If we are to consider only a fully awakened Buddha as enlightened, i would think no one would dare lay claim to that? Maybe essentially there are no enlightened beings as far as this goes.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
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Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
I would stay away from a teacher who makes claims of their attainments.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
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Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
nvm, Nicholas found him.DNS wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:53 pmDid you mean Master Hsing Yun? If so, he's still alive, 94 years old.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsing_Yun
Or is Hsi Yun a different person? Do you have a link to a bio about him?
https://www.dharmapaths.com/viewtopic.php?t=9325
https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Hsu_Yun
119 years old at his passing!
Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
In Lankavatara sutra there is the concept and event of "Turning about in the deepest seat of consciousness", this would qualify as "enlightenment" in my opinion. If you read the descriptions and names of the ten bhumis that are available in the buddhist literature, it very much seems that the first bhumi equals enlightenment. But it does not make much difference, because you can not measure the bhumis like you can measure the results in competitive sports like marathon running, etc... You seem to be looking for an "objective scale of enlightenment", give it up! Such a thing has not been invented, so far at least. "Enlightenment" usually translates the word Bodhi. Mahayana sutras describe three kinds of bodhi: sravaka, pratyeakabuddha and bodhisattva. So it is certainly an existent thing/phenomenon.Stigg wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 8:03 amThanks, I'm looking for pure Mahayana figures (not counting the Vajrayana/Shingon sects). I think others had a good point: Which level bhumi is considered enlightened? If we are to consider only a fully awakened Buddha as enlightened, i would think no one would dare lay claim to that? Maybe essentially there are no enlightened beings as far as this goes.Kai lord wrote: ↑Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:59 am So many......basically any practitioners who died and remained in the state of Thukdam for days and other more advanced displays of parinirvana....You can easily google about the list of people who achieved that in the recent decades.
They were all considered liberated.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Re: Enlightened people in Mahayana (past or present)
I think it will be almost impossible to say forsure what people were/are enlightened but there have been many amazing teachers in the past/present. You are asking specifically from the point of view of common Mahayana and historically there are many amazing masters in China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam and Taiwan. Zhiyi, Dogen, Hakuin, Jinul, the Chan patriarchs, etc are all considered great masters. Were they enlightened? I don't know, but they were definitely some impressive people. As far as modern teachers go there are many well known teachers like Master Hsuan Hua, Sheng Yen, Thich Nhat Hanh, Seung Sahn, Thich Thanh Tu, Omori Sogen, Kodo Sawaki, and many others who all seemed to be extraordinary practitioners. Were any of them enlightened? Still I don't know. There are probably numerous practitioners that we will never know about who are quite amazing as well. I remember in an interview Guo Gu did he discussed a Chan master he would see in Taiwan on top of a mountain. For all we know he could have been enlightened or any of the other hermits living a life of seclusion or practice could be. I try to focus on a teachers behavior and see how they truly help other beings since this is what the Mahayana comes down to. If you see them act with utmost compassion and wisdom that is already a big step in my opinion.