Sudden Awakening

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clyde
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Sudden Awakening

Post by clyde »

The Zen task is to open the gates of the world beyond our prejudices. Like the Buddha, we can step away from everything we are certain about. I think that this possibility is the best contribution we can make to healing the flaws in consciousness and helping the world. Unkindness comes out of certainty; when we throw out certainty, we have the bare reality of consciousness, and another name for that is love.
Sudden Awakening by John Tarrant in Lion’s Roar
https://www.lionsroar.com/sudden-awakening/
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Queequeg »

clyde wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:32 am
The Zen task is to open the gates of the world beyond our prejudices. Like the Buddha, we can step away from everything we are certain about. I think that this possibility is the best contribution we can make to healing the flaws in consciousness and helping the world. Unkindness comes out of certainty; when we throw out certainty, we have the bare reality of consciousness, and another name for that is love.
Sudden Awakening by John Tarrant in Lion’s Roar
https://www.lionsroar.com/sudden-awakening/
Certainly written for the supermarket checkout line.

Not amenable to his approach that defines Buddhadharma as love. Too much baggage in that word, too much leeway to get lost in all the baggage that comes with that word, even its highest meanings like agape (which, notwithstanding, falls far short of bodhi, imho), which he squarely related to.

Too much emphasis on peak experiences and whimsy for my taste. Maybe that works for some people.

Meanwhile, limits the Buddha to the five foot tall man born at Lumbini and who died at Kusinagara. And turns him into a starry eyed aesthete.

Gets a little more grounded at the end, but the confusion was already sown.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by reiun »

clyde wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:32 am
The Zen task is to open the gates of the world beyond our prejudices. Like the Buddha, we can step away from everything we are certain about. I think that this possibility is the best contribution we can make to healing the flaws in consciousness and helping the world. Unkindness comes out of certainty; when we throw out certainty, we have the bare reality of consciousness, and another name for that is love.
Sudden Awakening by John Tarrant in Lion’s Roar
https://www.lionsroar.com/sudden-awakening/
This is more or less just another way of saying that zen is practiced on behalf of all beings, which is a beginner's instruction.
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by oryoki »

I recall reading an interview on the internet (I forgot exactly where) with Zen Teacher Bernie Glassman who said “Even if you solve all 1700 koans you still don’t know.” And when Bodhidharma stood in front of Chinese emperor and was asked “Who is standing before me?”, he replied “I don’t know”. I was present in Fremantle, Perth, WA, during public Dharma talk, when Zen teacher John Tarrant was asked similarly: “Who is it sitting before me?” and he replied “Pinocchio” and added for clarity: “I don’t know what moves my hands; I don’t know what opens my mouth”.
Did not become the puppet Pinocchio in the end real human being trough love?
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Tao »

>added for clarity: “I don’t know what moves my hands; I don’t know what opens my mouth”.

>Did not become the puppet Pinocchio in the end real human being trough love?

Nice tale.

You should investigate further the Interdependent origination.
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Anders »

reiun wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:42 pm This is more or less just another way of saying that zen is practiced on behalf of all beings, which is a beginner's instruction.
It's also an intermediate, advanced and final instruction.

If anything, I'd say it is much less relevant for beginners really.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"

--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Aemilius »

Queequeg wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:50 pm
clyde wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:32 am
The Zen task is to open the gates of the world beyond our prejudices. Like the Buddha, we can step away from everything we are certain about. I think that this possibility is the best contribution we can make to healing the flaws in consciousness and helping the world. Unkindness comes out of certainty; when we throw out certainty, we have the bare reality of consciousness, and another name for that is love.
Sudden Awakening by John Tarrant in Lion’s Roar
https://www.lionsroar.com/sudden-awakening/
Certainly written for the supermarket checkout line.

Not amenable to his approach that defines Buddhadharma as love. Too much baggage in that word, too much leeway to get lost in all the baggage that comes with that word, even its highest meanings like agape (which, notwithstanding, falls far short of bodhi, imho), which he squarely related to.

Too much emphasis on peak experiences and whimsy for my taste. Maybe that works for some people.

Meanwhile, limits the Buddha to the five foot tall man born at Lumbini
I have read that Buddha was longer than that. There is a sutta/sutra in which a tall bhikshu is approaching in the distance, and the bhikkhus get up out of reverence, thinking that it must be Tathagata himself. Then it turns out that he is (only) Mahakasyapa and they sit down again. Mahakashyapa was "great" (maha) in the meaning that he was tall, as tall as Buddha himself.
In another sutta/sutra Yasodhara says to Rahula that he can know his father among the bhikshus from the fact that he is the tall one.

"Buddha is perhaps one of the few sages for whom we have mention of his rather impressive physical characteristics. He was at least six feet tall and had a strong enough body to be noticed by one of the kings and was asked to join his army as a general." https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispe ... Buddha.htm


"On one occasion, a certain brahmin citizen of Rājagaha heard that it was impossible to measure the height of Buddha Gotama. So when the Buddha went into Rājagaha City and made His rounds for alms, he took a sixty-cubit long bamboo pole and stood outside the city-gate. When the Buddha drew near the city-gate, he went up to Him with the pole. The pole reached just the Buddha’s knee.

"The next day, the brahmin joined two sixty-cubit long poles and came again near the Buddha. The joined poles did not stand higher than the waist of the Buddha who asked him what he was doing. The brahmin replied that he was measuring His height.

"Then the Buddha said:
“Brahmin, even though you may join all the bamboos in the universe, you will not be able to measure My height. Certainly, I have not developed the perfections for four asaṅkhyeyyas and a hundred thousand aeons to enable somebody to measure My height. (I have developed them to the extent that nobody can measure My height.) Brahmin, the Buddha is a personage who is peerless and immeasurable.”


from Great Chronicle of Buddhas (maha-buddha-vamsa) Part 1 - Introduction (the Buddha’s height Measured by a Brahmin)
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Queequeg »

Aemilius wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:06 am
Queequeg wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 1:50 pm
clyde wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 5:32 am
Sudden Awakening by John Tarrant in Lion’s Roar
https://www.lionsroar.com/sudden-awakening/
Certainly written for the supermarket checkout line.

Not amenable to his approach that defines Buddhadharma as love. Too much baggage in that word, too much leeway to get lost in all the baggage that comes with that word, even its highest meanings like agape (which, notwithstanding, falls far short of bodhi, imho), which he squarely related to.

Too much emphasis on peak experiences and whimsy for my taste. Maybe that works for some people.

Meanwhile, limits the Buddha to the five foot tall man born at Lumbini
I have read that Buddha was longer than that. There is a sutta/sutra in which a tall bhikshu is approaching in the distance, and the bhikkhus get up out of reverence, thinking that it must be Tathagata himself. Then it turns out that he is (only) Mahakasyapa and they sit down again. Mahakashyapa was "great" (maha) in the meaning that he was tall, as tall as Buddha himself.
In another sutta/sutra Yasodhara says to Rahula that he can know his father among the bhikshus from the fact that he is the tall one.

"Buddha is perhaps one of the few sages for whom we have mention of his rather impressive physical characteristics. He was at least six feet tall and had a strong enough body to be noticed by one of the kings and was asked to join his army as a general." https://www.cs.mcgill.ca/~rwest/wikispe ... Buddha.htm


"On one occasion, a certain brahmin citizen of Rājagaha heard that it was impossible to measure the height of Buddha Gotama. So when the Buddha went into Rājagaha City and made His rounds for alms, he took a sixty-cubit long bamboo pole and stood outside the city-gate. When the Buddha drew near the city-gate, he went up to Him with the pole. The pole reached just the Buddha’s knee.

"The next day, the brahmin joined two sixty-cubit long poles and came again near the Buddha. The joined poles did not stand higher than the waist of the Buddha who asked him what he was doing. The brahmin replied that he was measuring His height.

"Then the Buddha said:
“Brahmin, even though you may join all the bamboos in the universe, you will not be able to measure My height. Certainly, I have not developed the perfections for four asaṅkhyeyyas and a hundred thousand aeons to enable somebody to measure My height. (I have developed them to the extent that nobody can measure My height.) Brahmin, the Buddha is a personage who is peerless and immeasurable.”


from Great Chronicle of Buddhas (maha-buddha-vamsa) Part 1 - Introduction (the Buddha’s height Measured by a Brahmin)
Sorry to go off the rails on this topic. Please split if mods see fit.

Six footer would have been very tall in those days.

I recall that story when he was a new sramana, the king noticed him on his alms rounds. IIRC, it was not only his physical appearance, but his gait. I always thought that this was partly genetic - being ksatriya, he was likely descended from the Aryans, so would have been lighter skinned than others in the region. Being a chieftain's son, he would have had a good diet throughout his life. Also being ksatriya, he was not only educated in all the contemporary knowledge but received military training from childhood, so would have carried himself like a warrior. When the king addressed him, he would have heard his educated speech. All of that is interesting and prepared him to be a figure for the ages. He was trained from childhood to be a leader so it makes sense that he would have a well disciplined and organized sangha that has endured to this day. That is a tribute to his ability as a leader of people. His educated speech enabled him to converse with upper class people with ease and confidence, in a manner that they would respect. His learning in the Vedas would enable him to debate with brahmins. His passionate romance with Yasodhara suggests he was a handsome fellow.

He was an extraordinary man, physically striking, intellectually brilliant and spiritually brave and courageous.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by reiun »

Anders wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 7:35 am
reiun wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 4:42 pm This is more or less just another way of saying that zen is practiced on behalf of all beings, which is a beginner's instruction.
It's also an intermediate, advanced and final instruction.
That's right. Not everyone is going to get it the first time.
If anything, I'd say it is much less relevant for beginners really.
Nonsense.
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by master of puppets »

Queequeg wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:58 pm He was an extraordinary man, physically striking, intellectually brilliant and spiritually brave and courageous.
seems theorically a zen master 😀
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Queequeg »

master of puppets wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 6:34 pm
Queequeg wrote: Fri Jul 01, 2022 1:58 pm He was an extraordinary man, physically striking, intellectually brilliant and spiritually brave and courageous.
seems theorically a zen master 😀
most def. zen pinup model. they have paintings and statues of him everywhere. :smile: maybe not in zen temples...
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by clyde »

I thought it was a wonderful article . . . but I had one issue with it.

John wrote, “The Zen task is to open the gates of the world beyond our prejudices.” So his NOTE struck an odd note. It’s misleading to say that Soto isn’t a path of transformation. All Zen Buddhist traditions have awakening (“seeing one’s true nature”) as goal. For Zen schools, it’s only methods that differ. The Soto school method (as I understand it) is living koans and “simple sitting meditation” as the “embodiment of the perfection that already exists” is one.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

“The most straightforward advice on awakening enlightened mind is this: practice not causing harm to anyone—yourself or others—and every day, do what you can to be helpful.” Pema Chodron, “What to Do When the Going Gets Rough”
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Malcolm »

Sudden awakening means that you suddenly realize you were never not a Buddha.
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by reiun »

clyde wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:02 pm I thought it was a wonderful article . . . but I had one issue with it.

John wrote, “The Zen task is to open the gates of the world beyond our prejudices.” So his NOTE struck an odd note. It’s misleading to say that Soto isn’t a path of transformation. All Zen Buddhist traditions have awakening (“seeing one’s true nature”) as goal.
But this is only true in context as a practice on behalf of all beings, and therefore not personal.
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by KeithA »

clyde wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:02 pm I thought it was a wonderful article . . . but I had one issue with it.

John wrote, “The Zen task is to open the gates of the world beyond our prejudices.” So his NOTE struck an odd note. It’s misleading to say that Soto isn’t a path of transformation. All Zen Buddhist traditions have awakening (“seeing one’s true nature”) as goal. For Zen schools, it’s only methods that differ. The Soto school method (as I understand it) is living koans and “simple sitting meditation” as the “embodiment of the perfection that already exists” is one.
Fascinating article, thanks for sharing, Clyde.

I don't know about the point that you made here, though. Tarrant's last line in his NOTE says that both schools get mixed up, because awakening can strike when you are not looking for it. That has been my own experience, for sure. Maybe I am reading it incorrectly, though.

_/|\_
Keith
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Queequeg »

Malcolm wrote: Sun Jul 03, 2022 11:16 pm Sudden awakening means that you suddenly realize you were never not a Buddha.
:good:

Sudden Awakening =/= Peak Experiences

The author errs in relating bodhi to peak experiences, reinterpreting Dharma in culturally significant terms thus reducing Dharma to some restatement of Western spiritual and aesthetic ideals. There is a cult of beauty and sensory cultivation in the West. (Leary called these people rapture engineers). Its not Buddhadharma.

"Far out, man. I'm a buddha."

I can see how this could happen... in the 20th c., there was a strong humanistic thrust introduced into Japanese Buddhism. The West got a good dose of this.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Tao »

Question:

Do you think kensho/Awakening is first bhumi or related?

Do you think is the path of seeing or the beginning of the path of meditation?

Is realizing Rigpa?

Is realizing the mind in Mahamudra (end of first yoga? one-pointedness)

And so on...

All of them? none of them? some of them?

Thank you
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Re: Sudden Awakening

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Dajian Huineng:

If you activate the correct and true and contemplate with prajñā, in a single instant [all your] false thoughts will be completely eradicated. If you recognize the self-nature, with a single [experience of] enlightenment you will attain the stage of buddhahood.
(Platform Sutra, ch 2, BDK ed, p 33)

Dazhu Huihai:

Q: What is Sudden Enlightenment?
A: "Sudden" means instantly stopping false thought. "Enlightenment" means [awareness] that one attains nothing.

(Treatise On Entering The Tao of Sudden Enlightenment)

Sudden Enlightenment means liberation during this lifetime. Just as a lion-cub, from the moment it is born, is a real lion, likewise anyone who practices the Sudden-Enlightenment method has, from the moment he begins his practice, already entered the Buddha-Stage. Just as the bamboo-shoots growing in springtime are not different from the parent bamboo-shoots, because they are also empty inside, likewise anyone who practices the Sudden-Enlightenment method to rid himself suddenly of false thought abandons, like the Buddhas, the sense of an ego and a personality forever. Being absolutely deep, still and void, he is, then, without an iota of difference, equal to the Buddhas. Thus, in this sense it can be said that the worldly is holy. If one practices the Sudden-Enlightenment method, he can transcend the three realms during this lifetime.
(Treatise On Entering The Tao of Sudden Enlightenment)

Baizhang Huaihai:

Question: What is the essential method for sudden enlightenment in the great vehicle?
The master said,
You all should first put an end to all involvements and lay to rest all concerns; do not remember or recollect anything at all, whether good or bad, mundane or transcendental - do not engage in thoughts. Let go of body and mind, set them free.
...
Once affirmation and negation, like and dislike, approval and disapproval, all various opinions and feelings come to an end and cannot bind you, then you are free wherever you may be; this is called a bodhisattva at the moment of inspiration immediately ascending to the stage of Buddhahood.

(Sayings and Doings of Pai-Chang, p 77-78)

Huangbo Xiyun:

If you suddenly realize right here and now that your own mind is originally a buddha, there is no dharma that needs to be attained and no practice that needs to be cultivated. This is the unsurpassed Way. This is the buddha of true suchness.
(A Bird in Flight Leaves No Trace, 1.4)

Ordinary people who are about to die should just perceive that the five aggregates are all empty and the four great elements are not the self. The true mind is signless; it neither goes nor comes. At the moment of birth, the nature does not come, and at the moment of death, the nature does not go; placid, it remains perfectly quiescent. The mind and sense objects are one and the same. If you can simply attain sudden understanding right here and now in this manner, you will not be bound by past, present, or future. You will then be a person who has transcended the world.
(A Bird in Flight Leaves No Trace, 1.6)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by curtstein »

Do you think kensho/Awakening is first bhumi or related?
I have heard that someone who attains the first bhumi is able to manifest in 100 different places with 100 different bodies at the same time - and in each place one is applying skillful means to help the sentient beings in that place. I heard this from a Lama in the Kagyu tradition (Lama Chodron, based in Richmond VA), and I believe she was relying on Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation, or some Kagyu commentary thereon.

Although my own tradition is different (Korean Soen), that particular teaching has really stuck with me. On the one had it can be discouraging to realize just how far one is from such a state. On the other hand a little humility on the path goes a long way.
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Re: Sudden Awakening

Post by Astus »

curtstein wrote: Thu Jul 07, 2022 4:56 pmI have heard that someone who attains the first bhumi is able to manifest in 100 different places with 100 different bodies at the same time - and in each place one is applying skillful means to help the sentient beings in that place. I heard this from a Lama in the Kagyu tradition (Lama Chodron, based in Richmond VA), and I believe she was relying on Gampopa's Jewel Ornament of Liberation, or some Kagyu commentary thereon.
Although my own tradition is different (Korean Soen), that particular teaching has really stuck with me. On the one had it can be discouraging to realize just how far one is from such a state. On the other hand a little humility on the path goes a long way.
It's actually from the Ten Stages chapter of the Avatamsaka Sutra.

'Having gone forth, enlightening beings instantly attain a hundred concentrations and see a hundred buddhas and acknowledgetheir power; they stir a hundred worlds, go to a hundred lands, illumine a hundred worlds, mature a hundred beings, live for a hundred eons, penetrate a hundred eons past and future, contemplate a hundred teachings, and manifest a hun dred bodies, each body m anifesting a company of a hundred enlightening beings. Then enlightening beings with superior power of commitment, by the quality of excellence of vows, transform their bodies, auras, mystic powers, vision, spheres of operation, voices, conduct, adornments, power, resolutions, and performances in countless ways.'
(Flower Ornament Scripture, p 710-711; 84K tr)
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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