Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

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dpcalder
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Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by dpcalder »

It's my understanding that the Yogacara concept of the alaya vijnana is transpersonal and contains the sum total of all impressions of all sentient beings. How is this compatible with the Buddhist view of impermanence? Can anyone link me to any good discussions on this issue (or provide their own answers)?
Malcolm
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by Malcolm »

dpcalder wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:54 am It's my understanding that the Yogacara concept of the alaya vijnana is transpersonal and contains the sum total of all impressions of all sentient beings. How is this compatible with the Buddhist view of impermanence? Can anyone link me to any good discussions on this issue (or provide their own answers)?
Your understanding is incorrectl. The all basis is personal. Read Mahayana Samgraha.
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Tao
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by Tao »

If Alaya is the support for rebirth it's clearly not transpersonal.

If fact is the only basis for the rebirth (life to life), so in some way it's the only basis for the "personal" (continuum), because as far as I understand, ALaya also "rebuilds" you every morning...

So Alaya is THE personal side os us.
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Aemilius
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by Aemilius »

There is the Studies in the Lankavatara sutra by D.T. Suzuki, available in the Archive https://archive.org/details/in.gov.ignca.9311/mode/2up

Alaya (basis consciousness) is discussed in
the Samdhinirmocana sutra, which exists in several translations. I have read the translations of John Powers (Wisdom of Buddha, The Samdhinirmocana Mahayana sutra) and Thomas Cleary (Buddhist Yoga: A Comprehensive Course). The latter title may sound awkward, but it is also a good translation, in my opinion.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Kai lord
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by Kai lord »

dpcalder wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:54 am How is this compatible with the Buddhist view of impermanence? Can anyone link me to any good discussions on this issue (or provide their own answers)?
Alaya vijnana is the storage house for countless of karmic seeds that are yet to ripen and new seeds are added to that consciousness constantly after each action, mentally or physically. So as a whole, its momentarily, ever changing and never the same. Thats why its not permanent.

In addition to the sources already listed above, you can read more about in Xuanzang's famous Cheng Wei Shi Lun or the English commentary on it by Dan.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
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Aemilius
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by Aemilius »

Kai lord wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:48 am
dpcalder wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 1:54 am How is this compatible with the Buddhist view of impermanence? Can anyone link me to any good discussions on this issue (or provide their own answers)?
Alaya vijnana is the storage house for countless of karmic seeds that are yet to ripen and new seeds are added to that consciousness constantly after each action, mentally or physically. So as a whole, its momentarily, ever changing and never the same. Thats why its not permanent.

In addition to the sources already listed above, you can read more about in Xuanzang's famous Cheng Wei Shi Lun or the English commentary on it by Dan.
The common idea is that alaya would somehow be "here", i.e. in this body, like one's mind seems to be "here". But when you understand that you are the 12 ayatanas and 18 dhatus, you will know that you are also "there", you are in the world "outside". From this it follows that the alaya is in fact everywhere or at least in many places that seem to be "outside". This means your personal alaya, not some imaginary "cosmic" version of it. I have experienced it my self. If you visit places where you have been say five, ten or fifteen years ago, you can or will become like the person you were five ten or fifteen years ago. There seems to be a memory of you in those places, which I have interpreted to be a form or aspect of alaya-consciousness.
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
ozymandias
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by ozymandias »

Time doesn't exist, Einstein is a liar.
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Aemilius
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by Aemilius »

Can you prove that claim?

from Uji: The Time-Being by Eihei Dogen

"'For the time being' here means time itself is being, and all being is time. A golden sixteen-foot body is time; because it is time, there is the radiant illumination of time. Study it as the twelve hours of the present."Three heads and eight arms" is time; because it is time, it is not separate from the twelve hours of the present.

"Even though you do not measure the hours of the day as long or short, far or near, you still call it twelve hours. Because the signs of time's coming and going are obvious, people do not doubt it. Although they do not doubt it, they do not understand it. Or when sentient beings doubt what they do not understand, their doubt is not firmly fixed. Because of that, their past
doubts do not necessarily coincide with the present doubt. Yet doubt itself is nothing but time.

"The way the self arrays itself is the form of the entire world. See each thing in this entire world as a moment of time.
Things do not hinder one another, just as moments do not hinder one another. The way-seeking mind arises in this moment. A way-seeking moment arises in this mind. It is the same with practice and with attaining the way. Thus the self setting itself out in array sees itself. This is the understanding that the self is time."

https://www.thezensite.com/ZenTeachings ... _Welch.htm
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
Kai lord
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by Kai lord »

ozymandias wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:16 pm Time doesn't exist, Einstein is a liar.
Well he did say that space and time do not exist independently of each other. Hence he used the term spacetime instead.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
undefineable
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Re: Is the alaya vijnana outside of spacetime?

Post by undefineable »

Kai lord wrote: Mon May 23, 2022 11:48 am Alaya vijnana is the storage house for countless of karmic seeds that are yet to ripen and new seeds are added to that consciousness constantly after each action, mentally or physically. So as a whole, its momentarily, ever changing and never the same. Thats why its not permanent.
Yes, that's roughly my impression too. Far bigger and more amorphous than the current self (as in Walt Whitman's "Very well then I contradict myself - I contain multitudes"), with past and potential future impressions ready to manifest under triggering conditions; slowly shifting and 'evolving'. But nothing concrete that you could put your finger on; more like a conceptualisation of an isolated aspect of what lies beyond ordinary understanding.

Just my '2c'. Chogyam Trungpa stated that a "collective alaya" was a contention at one point, but the concept looks unlikely from a Buddhist point of view. Many people (myself included) have a sense of a "collective unconscious", some sort of shared pool of impressions, but then again there are so many illusions out there...
you wore out your welcome with random precision {Pink Floyd}
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