Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Kai lord
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Kai lord »

Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Malcolm
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Malcolm »

Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 am Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Theoretically. The reality is different.
Kai lord
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Kai lord »

Malcolm wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:32 am
Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 am Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Theoretically. The reality is different.
Let me guess, many just do kilaya snd yogini similar to what some Gelugpas did, except with solitary hero and Yogini
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conebeckham
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by conebeckham »

Vir Sung is also pretty important, at least I have been told so…
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
Malcolm
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Malcolm »

Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 12:06 pm
Malcolm wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 11:32 am
Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 am Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Theoretically. The reality is different.
Let me guess, many just do kilaya snd yogini similar to what some Gelugpas did, except with solitary hero and Yogini
Many only practice Yogini.
rupam
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by rupam »

Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 am Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Laymen practicing both VY and Hevajra daily? Says who? Lmao. To each to their own i guess but you don’t need to separately practice chakrasamvara if you practice VY, that’s all i can say. Take a closer look at the iconography of VY and we can understand why
Kai lord
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Kai lord »

rupam wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:30 am
Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 am Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Laymen practicing both VY and Hevajra daily? Says who? Lmao. To each to their own i guess but you don’t need to separately practice chakrasamvara if you practice VY, that’s all i can say. Take a closer look at the iconography of VY and we can understand why
Not surprised that you would think that way given how you confuse hevajra with chakrasamvara.
Layman indeed
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Kai lord
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Kai lord »

rupam wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:30 am
Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 am Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Laymen practicing both VY and Hevajra daily? Says who? Lmao. To each to their own i guess but you don’t need to separately practice chakrasamvara if you practice VY, that’s all i can say. Take a closer look at the iconography of VY and we can understand why
Since I have some times now, I would write more to refute a popular misconception.
While its true that VY is the heart of chakrasamvara practice, its not true that most people stop practice chakrasamvara because they have received VY eleven yoga teaching.
There are many gelugpas who still practice Luipa lineage of chakrasamvara despite received VY. Why? Because chakrasamvara is integral to the entire system of gelug core practice called lama chopa, the whispering lineage, one of the eight chariots.

Similarly , there are many Drikung kagyu people who still practice the ghantapa five deity chakrasamvara because they love Mahamudra and that deity is at the core of the five fold Mahamudra practice.

So to many practitioners, chakrasamvara is more than just one deity they received after two days of empowerment. It represents an entire system of teaching and practices that goes with it.

As for why some Sakyapas still practice Hevajra... well, just think of lamdre and vajra verses. Maybe being one of the eight chariots does not mean a thing to many practitioners nowadays ( since VJ did guarantee an entry into her pureland for people who received empowerment of the gelug lineage within seven generations) but there is no harm in integrating VJ teaching with lamdre.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Malcolm
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Malcolm »

Kai lord wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:14 am As for why some Sakyapas still practice Hevajra... well, just think of lamdre and vajra verses.
Lamdre is a hetrogenous system (see my two volume forthcoming translation of Lamdre material published by Shambala under the auspice of Tsadra). The Vajra Verses are primarily focused on completion stage practice. Lamdre also incorporates eight other upadeśas brought to Tibet by Drokmi. Lamdre is in fact the distilled essence of nine upadeśas, based on Hevjara, Cakrasamvara, and Guhyasamaja.

One can use these completion stage practices for any mother tantra deity. Indeed, Sachen's Nyakma commentary shows up in the terma revelations of Longsal Nyingpo.
rupam
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by rupam »

Kai lord wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:14 am
rupam wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:30 am
Kai lord wrote: Thu May 19, 2022 7:20 am Most Sakypas practice the four unbreakables, so they practice both hevajra and yogini at the same time daily.
Laymen practicing both VY and Hevajra daily? Says who? Lmao. To each to their own i guess but you don’t need to separately practice chakrasamvara if you practice VY, that’s all i can say. Take a closer look at the iconography of VY and we can understand why
Since I have some times now, I would write more to refute a popular misconception.
While its true that VY is the heart of chakrasamvara practice, its not true that most people stop practice chakrasamvara because they have received VY eleven yoga teaching.
There are many gelugpas who still practice Luipa lineage of chakrasamvara despite received VY. Why? Because chakrasamvara is integral to the entire system of gelug core practice called lama chopa, the whispering lineage, one of the eight chariots.

Similarly , there are many Drikung kagyu people who still practice the ghantapa five deity chakrasamvara because they love Mahamudra and that deity is at the core of the five fold Mahamudra practice.

So to many practitioners, chakrasamvara is more than just one deity they received after two days of empowerment. It represents an entire system of teaching and practices that goes with it.

As for why some Sakyapas still practice Hevajra... well, just think of lamdre and vajra verses. Maybe being one of the eight chariots does not mean a thing to many practitioners nowadays ( since VJ did guarantee an entry into her pureland for people who received empowerment of the gelug lineage within seven generations) but there is no harm in integrating VJ teaching with lamdre.
All that paragraphs that no one asked for and add nothing to anything lol. Read your own posts and see why i said each to their own. Indeed, Tibetan Buddhism is very diverse and what one teacher/school says may differ from other teachers/schools. Hence, I couldn’t careless about 90% of what you said because Imma do my practices the way I received and was taught by my Sakya teachers without hinting/revealing any of it online to protect my samaya. :guns:
Kai lord
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Kai lord »

Malcolm wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 2:39 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:14 am As for why some Sakyapas still practice Hevajra... well, just think of lamdre and vajra verses.
Lamdre is a hetrogenous system (see my two volume forthcoming translation of Lamdre material published by Shambala under the auspice of Tsadra).
Will do

One can use these completion stage practices for any mother tantra deity. Indeed, Sachen's Nyakma commentary shows up in the terma revelations of Longsal Nyingpo.
Is it because the older brother of the founder for kathok was a student of Sachen?
rupam wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 3:32 am
Kai lord wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:14 am
rupam wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 7:30 am

Laymen practicing both VY and Hevajra daily? Says who? Lmao. To each to their own i guess but you don’t need to separately practice chakrasamvara if you practice VY, that’s all i can say. Take a closer look at the iconography of VY and we can understand why
Since I have some times now, I would write more to refute a popular misconception.
While its true that VY is the heart of chakrasamvara practice, its not true that most people stop practice chakrasamvara because they have received VY eleven yoga teaching.
There are many gelugpas who still practice Luipa lineage of chakrasamvara despite received VY. Why? Because chakrasamvara is integral to the entire system of gelug core practice called lama chopa, the whispering lineage, one of the eight chariots.

Similarly , there are many Drikung kagyu people who still practice the ghantapa five deity chakrasamvara because they love Mahamudra and that deity is at the core of the five fold Mahamudra practice.

So to many practitioners, chakrasamvara is more than just one deity they received after two days of empowerment. It represents an entire system of teaching and practices that goes with it.

As for why some Sakyapas still practice Hevajra... well, just think of lamdre and vajra verses. Maybe being one of the eight chariots does not mean a thing to many practitioners nowadays ( since VJ did guarantee an entry into her pureland for people who received empowerment of the gelug lineage within seven generations) but there is no harm in integrating VJ teaching with lamdre.
All that paragraphs that no one asked for and add nothing to anything lol. Read your own posts and see why i said each to their own.


Of course because those paragraphs are not meant to be addressed to you. Read my post again and you will see that I am addressing a popular misconception.

If you think I am criticizing you, then its on you.
Last edited by Ayu on Sun May 22, 2022 3:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Trying to avoid useless quarrel.
Life is like a game, either you win or lose!
Life is like a fight, either you live or die!
Life is like a show, either you laugh or cry!
Life is like a dream, either you know or not!!!
Malcolm
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Re: Most Important Empowerments in the Sakya Tradition

Post by Malcolm »

Kai lord wrote: Sun May 22, 2022 9:07 am
Malcolm wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 2:39 pm
Kai lord wrote: Sat May 21, 2022 11:14 am As for why some Sakyapas still practice Hevajra... well, just think of lamdre and vajra verses.
Lamdre is a hetrogenous system (see my two volume forthcoming translation of Lamdre material published by Shambala under the auspice of Tsadra).
Will do

One can use these completion stage practices for any mother tantra deity. Indeed, Sachen's Nyakma commentary shows up in the terma revelations of Longsal Nyingpo.
Is it because the older brother of the founder for kathok was a student of Sachen?
I don't know.
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