Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Locked
Dharmadale
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:33 am

Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Dharmadale »

A friend of mine keeps insisting that His Holiness wishes to return Tibet to its old feudal system. I feel like I have seen a direct quote from him insisting this is not the case but am unable to find it. Does anyone know where I can find it?
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13256
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Ayu »

Your friend is only parroting the narrative of the Chinese government, which seems to be completely untrue:
https://freetibet.org/about/dalai-lama


Within that link you can find:
...China strongly criticises the Dalai Lama both inside and outside Tibet. It accuses him of seeking to rule Tibet and being a “splittist” who seeks Tibetan independence. His image is banned inside Tibet and Tibetans may be jailed for calling for his long life or publicly praising him. In jail, as well as in religious institutions, Tibetans are frequently ordered to denounce the Dalai Lama.

The Dalai Lama has passed all political power in the exile Tibetan community to a democratically elected parliament and prime minister. While he continues to advocate for the preservation of Tibet’s religion, culture, language and environment, he does not support Tibetan independence and has proposed a Middle Way Approach, in which Tibet remains a part of the People’s Republic of China but has greater control of its own affairs...
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Queequeg »

Dharmadale wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:50 am A friend of mine keeps insisting that His Holiness wishes to return Tibet to its old feudal system. I feel like I have seen a direct quote from him insisting this is not the case but am unable to find it. Does anyone know where I can find it?
See the HHDL's autobiography, Freedom in Exile. Also, look into his views on his political role (abdicated) and the role of the Tibetan government in exile. I don't think its possible to sum up his views with a few pithy quotes. His views are too nuanced for social media.

Some points from Chapter 14 of his autobiography:

Five Point Peace Plan:

1. The transformation of the whole of Tibet into a zone of peace.
2. Abandonment of China's population transfer policy which threatens the very existence of the Tibetans as a people.
3. Respect for the Tibetan people's fundamental human rights and democratic freedom.
4. Restoration and protection of Tibet's natural environment and the abandonment of China's use of Tibet for the production of nuclear weapons and dumping of nuclear waste.
5. Commencement of earnest negotiations on the future status of Tibet and of relations between Tibetan and Chinese peoples.

Fundamentally, I think HHDL wants to see Tibetans exercise self-determination.

I recall hearing, or reading, his ideal version has Tibet becoming a realm for spiritual cultivation as a resource for the world. My sense of this is - we have banking centers, industrial centers - how about a place where people can go to deeply cultivate the spiritual life. Taking the example of Buddhist training grounds like Enryakuji in Japan which encompasses an entire mountain to the northeast of Kyoto, except making the entire Tibetan Plateau such a training ground.

Whatever the case - if anyone takes the time to observe and listen to what he has to say, and what he has consistently said over the course of his entire public career, and backed up with his actions, he would not want any sentient being to suffer in bondage and rather would establish circumstances for the flourishing of each.

Your friend is ignorant, I'm afraid.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 1792
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Canada

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Nemo »

Wasn't 90% of the land in Tibet owned by 9 families? It had some very serious problems. Chinese propaganda needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but so to the proclamations of the elites who fled.
User avatar
Queequeg
Former staff member
Posts: 14462
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:24 pm

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Queequeg »

Nemo wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 3:56 pm Wasn't 90% of the land in Tibet owned by 9 families? It had some very serious problems. Chinese propaganda needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but so to the proclamations of the elites who fled.
Yes, but we're talking about HHDL's ideas for Tibet. I don't think he supports restoration of pre-occupation Tibet. It would be a very different place. Just as Zionism hasn't rebuilt the Temple and restored the Cohens as priests.
There is no suffering to be severed. Ignorance and klesas are indivisible from bodhi. There is no cause of suffering to be abandoned. Since extremes and the false are the Middle and genuine, there is no path to be practiced. Samsara is nirvana. No severance achieved. No suffering nor its cause. No path, no end. There is no transcendent realm; there is only the one true aspect. There is nothing separate from the true aspect.
-Guanding, Perfect and Sudden Contemplation,
Dharmadale
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:33 am

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Dharmadale »

Thanks everyone, I am aware my friend is parroting Chinese propaganda, he himself is a communist so it's not so surprising. I just thought I had a memory of him addressing the issue directly in a 'pithy', perhaps during an interview or some such thing
User avatar
Hazel
Former staff member
Posts: 2090
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:15 pm
Location: she/her

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Hazel »

He stepped down as political leader because he's explicitly against serfdom.

Here's an article from 2011
"As early as the 1960s, I have repeatedly stressed that Tibetans need a leader, elected freely by the Tibetan people, to whom I can devolve power," the Dalai Lama said in a prepared speech on the anniversary of the 1959 Tibetan uprising against Chinese control. "Now, we have clearly reached the time to put this into effect."
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna42001181
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

What do you see when you turn out the lights?
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17091
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Dharmadale wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:55 pm Thanks everyone, I am aware my friend is parroting Chinese propaganda, he himself is a communist so it's not so surprising. I just thought I had a memory of him addressing the issue directly in a 'pithy', perhaps during an interview or some such thing
Most of the time I’ve seen him talk about politics he seems broadly in favor of democracy, though in a pretty non-specific way.

I think the larger claim of anti-Vajrayana people and propagandists generally is that the whole setup is “feudal”. Often it’s code for “primitive”, among other things. Often it’s a way to devalue a whole culture by basically saying it is outmoded and ignorant, and in need of updating. Straight out of the colonial book, actually.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6288
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by heart »

Dharmadale wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:50 am A friend of mine keeps insisting that His Holiness wishes to return Tibet to its old feudal system. I feel like I have seen a direct quote from him insisting this is not the case but am unable to find it. Does anyone know where I can find it?
Ridiculous statement since he been pushing for a democratic Tibet since he came out of Tibet. He wrote a book in the 60’s about this. Sorry can’t remember the name.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13256
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Ayu »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 6:05 pm
Dharmadale wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 5:55 pm Thanks everyone, I am aware my friend is parroting Chinese propaganda, he himself is a communist so it's not so surprising. I just thought I had a memory of him addressing the issue directly in a 'pithy', perhaps during an interview or some such thing
Most of the time I’ve seen him talk about politics he seems broadly in favor of democracy, though in a pretty non-specific way.

I think the larger claim of anti-Vajrayana people and propagandists generally is that the whole setup is “feudal”. Often it’s code for “primitive”, among other things. Often it’s a way to devalue a whole culture by basically saying it is outmoded and ignorant, and in need of updating. Straight out of the colonial book, actually.
Exactly. That stance is poorly hidden racism.
Nalanda
Posts: 646
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2021 4:35 am

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Nalanda »

Dharmadale wrote: Wed Feb 09, 2022 9:50 am A friend of mine keeps insisting that His Holiness wishes to return Tibet to its old feudal system. I feel like I have seen a direct quote from him insisting this is not the case but am unable to find it. Does anyone know where I can find it?
HHDL resigned from politics and from his role as the government head. He advocates for democracy. The Tibetan Authorities today is governed by democratically elected politicians.

So your friend is just in contrast with reality.
IF YOU PRACTICE WITH A STRONG BELIEF IN WHAT
YOU ARE DOING, THEN THERE IS NO LIMIT TO WHAT
YOU CAN ACCOMPLISH WITH YOUR PRACTICE.

CHAKUNG JIGME WANGDRAK RINPOCHE

Shinjin
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2021 2:44 pm

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Shinjin »

Chinse communists are never giving back Tibet. It's a lost cause unfortunately.
Dharmadale
Posts: 49
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:33 am

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Dharmadale »

I know he has identified himself as a Marxist a few times, perhaps that is as close as I can get
American Friend
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:53 pm

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by American Friend »

His Holiness the Dalai Lama worked hard to create a democratic system for the TGIE (Tibetan Gov. in Exile). He removed himself from a government position.

Let me be clear, I'm a Ganden practitioner (Gelukpa), but I am vehemently against the combination of Church and State. I don't think the Ganden Phodrang should be in charge of the TGIE so I'm glad to see what HHDL has done.

Also, Tibet was horribly feudal. That is undeniable. It had the pure Buddhist teachings, but it was run by a feudal Game of Thrones style government. But the CCP made it WORSE.

So, again, His Holiness's actions to separate Church and State, and to develop a democratic system for the TGIE is AWESOME. By doing this, he is working to fix the problems that existed pre-1959 in Tibet.

Cheers!
User avatar
Ayu
Global Moderator
Posts: 13256
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am
Location: Europe

Re: Dalai Lama and a return to serfdom

Post by Ayu »

Amen.
I think, the opinions of Dharmadale's friend have been discussed sufficiently at this place.
Locked

Return to “Gelug”