video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Schrödinger’s Yidam
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video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

My impression that this is an outlier interpretation. Brunnhölzl credits this to Karmapas #3 and #8.
https://buddhanature.tsadra.org/index.p ... Brunnhölzl

However Karmapa #17 said in New York (2/4/18), and I think this is an exact quote, "The fundamental problem isn't 'ignorance'. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now." That sort of makes me wonder if what Brunnhölz is talking about is as much of an outlier as I have assumed.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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nyonchung
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by nyonchung »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:28 pm My impression that this is an outlier interpretation. Brunnhölzl credits this to Karmapas #3 and #8.
https://buddhanature.tsadra.org/index.p ... Brunnhölzl

However Karmapa #17 said in New York (2/4/18), and I think this is an exact quote, "The fundamental problem isn't 'ignorance'. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now." That sort of makes me wonder if what Brunnhölz is talking about is as much of an outlier as I have assumed.
The same you mentioned in another trend?
The answers will be the same, I'm not a scholar, but thisnot the POW of the Karmapa III. Even if SNR wrote a few years back a gzhan stong pa commentary on it. And I doubt SNR's gzhan stong is the same as Dölpowa's
Check with:
Mahāmudra Teachings of the Supreme Siddhas, The Eight Situpa Tenpa'i Nyinchay on the Third Karmapa Rangjung Dorjé's Aspiration Prayer of Mahāmudra of Definitive Meaning" = Nges don phyag rgya chen po'i smon lam gyi 'grel pa grub pa mchog gi zhal lung, by Tai Situ VIII Chokyi Jungné (1699-1774) , translated by Lama Sherab Dorje, Snow Lion Publications, Ithaca, 1995
I received both lung and explanations from Tenga Rinpoché.
During moving from Nepal to France my extensive zin bris (notes) alas disappeared (but recording is kept in Benchen) and, I think I mentioned that Tenga Rinpoché was a bit annoyed when somebody asked it was "zhentong".
I kept a few notes on the margins of a definitely innacurate translation in French by Denys Dondrub of the "Prayer" itslef, if this thread goes on, I'll may use them.

Tib. text in TBRC - W28983
nges don phyag rgya chen po'i smon lam gyi 'grel pa grub pa mchog gi zhal lung /
thabs grol Volume 1 Pages 803 - 916 Open Access Work
plus, there is a sa bcad by the Karmapa himself.

As for Karmapa OTD's quote, I think this is quoted out of context, as the formula "the mind you hava right now" retranslated in Tibetan would sound rather strange.And is not anyway regfering to Buddha Nature
And even rather strange if we compaire to the "Prayer" that has:
- ma rig dbang rang rig bdag tu 'khrul, we certainly have to deal with ignorance that give birth to an "I" ... not a strict translation
there is anyway no mention of Tathagarbha (maybe in the sa bcad?)

for the only approaching mention:
- 'gro ba'i rang bzhin rtag tu sangs rgyas kyang / ma rtogs dbang gis mtha' med 'khor ba mkhyams = even if Buddha being their own nature / due to the force of not understanding it they wander in Samsara (poor translatiuon, sorry I'm French)
thi spart of the "Prayer" emphasises do develop unceasing compassion for beings who experiment immense sufferings

I won't go any further, since, except for these few quotes, one certainly needs the lung and some introduction to Mahamudra practice by a qualified teacher. This text being for actual practice.

But I hope that I made it clear that, in this specific text, for the Karpapa III, it is clear that if beings wander in samsara it is due to ignorance (ma rig pa) giving birth to an I etc ...
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
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Matt J
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Matt J »

What does that even mean? Out of context, it is difficult to tell.
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:28 pm However Karmapa #17 said in New York (2/4/18), and I think this is an exact quote, "The fundamental problem isn't 'ignorance'. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now."
"The world is made of stories, not atoms."
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conebeckham
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by conebeckham »

Definitely hard to understand Karmapa's comment. I confess I didn't watch the vid, but I am familiar with Brunnholzl's work.

My only guess is that perhaps it's "mind" (sems) that is the problem, as opposed to "Mind itself" (sems nyid). This would be in keeping with Mahamudra instruction and practice, of course. Ignorance really means "ignorance of our true nature," or of mind itself, in the context of Mahamudra teachings.I'll try to watch the vid and see if I have anything else to add....
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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conebeckham
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by conebeckham »

I've watched the vid. Frankly, I think that if you look at Dzogchen and Mahamudra traditions you'll find similar ideas, but stated differently. In particular, Dzogchen talks about "going beyond mind"--the essential crux of the Nyingthik cycles,really. It does leave unresolved the central issue of an Ultimately Existing Buddha Nature, and/or how such a nature might relate with sentient beings. 17th Karmapa's statement strikes me as stemming from this understanding of the difference between our self-definition as sentient beings with bodies and minds, and an understanding of some sort of reality beyond that self-definition. But it's hard to know exactly what HH17K meant without development and context.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Matt J
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Matt J »

So I think I tracked down the Karmapa story, which adds context and does not appear controversial at all:
The Karmapa followed his explanation with a pertinent story of the first meeting between Gampopa (1079-1135, the founder of the Dakpo Kagyu lineage), and his disciple Geshe Phakmo Drukpa (1110-1170, a lineage holder, whose activity was the greatest among Gampopa’s disciples). Phakmo Drukpa extensively studied Buddhist philosophy and logic at a Kadampa monastic college and also received teachings from many famous lamas. During this time, he had a persistent question: “What is the root of samsara?” All his teachers gave the same response, “ignorance” and followed this with detailed explanations, which did not help his mind very much.

[snip]

When Phakmo Drukpa entered the presence of Gampopa, the master was eating balls of roasted barley flour (tsampa, a staple of Tibet). Following the custom, Phakmo Drukpa explained the history of his study and practice to Gampopa and offered an account of his experiences and realizations. Gampopa replied, “You didn’t get it. My lump of tsampa is worth more than your experience and realization.” Having just revealed his whole inner life to Gampopa, Phakmo Drukpa was rather vulnerable at this point, so this insult subdued his pride a bit.

Then Phakmo Drukpa said, “I have a question that I always ask: What is the root of samsara?” Gampopa replied, “Your present mind.” This evoked such a deep feeling in Phakmo Drukpa that right then and there he attained realization.

Why did Phakmo Drukpa have to wait so long? When the answer to his question was “ignorance,” it meant that he would have to study and find out what ignorance is. He would be looking outward while the root of samsara, his present, ignorant mind, was within, so he was looking in the wrong direction. When Gampopa directed Phakmo Drukpa’s awareness to the right place—his present mind—he immediately experienced the answer to his long-held question and attained realization.

His Holiness then summarized, “Ignorance can be found only in our present mind and nowhere else. We should reflect on this. We don’t need to study about what is truly existent or not truly existent. We will discover that phenomena are not truly existent by investigating our present consciousness itself.” The Karmapa closed with a caveat: “It is very difficult to weaken the hold of the mind that takes things to be real.”
Bold added.

Source:

https://kagyuoffice.org/the-karmapa-giv ... -training/
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:21 pm So I think I tracked down the Karmapa story, which adds context and does not appear controversial at all:
The Karmapa followed his explanation with a pertinent story of the first meeting between Gampopa (1079-1135, the founder of the Dakpo Kagyu lineage), and his disciple Geshe Phakmo Drukpa (1110-1170, a lineage holder, whose activity was the greatest among Gampopa’s disciples).
The HHK 17 quote was the last two sentences of his teaching on the Green Tara (yoga Tantra level) he had just finished. The date was 2/4/18. So although he may be making the same point, it was a different talk.
Then Phakmo Drukpa said, “I have a question that I always ask: What is the root of samsara?” Gampopa replied, “Your present mind.” This evoked such a deep feeling in Phakmo Drukpa that right then and there he attained realization.
This seems like the same point. The emphasis that Brunnhölzl is making is that the obscurations aren’t just some extraneous aspect of our minds, but the entirety of our experience is the obscuration.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:17 pm What does that even mean? Out of context, it is difficult to tell.
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:28 pm However Karmapa #17 said in New York (2/4/18), and I think this is an exact quote, "The fundamental problem isn't 'ignorance'. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now."
Well I think it possible that he is saying what Brunnhölzl said in different words. Brunnhölzl said it’s not that sentient beings have defilements, but that they are the defilements.

Or, my terms, everything we currently experience gets tossed out in order to become enlightened. We are the mud the lotus of enlightenment grows out of.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Matt J
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Matt J »

It is the same date. The video is entitled Green Tara Empowerment & Mind Training Teachings. They probably only livecast the Mind Training Teachings.
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:43 pm
Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:21 pm The HHK 17 quote was the last two sentences of his teaching on the Green Tara (yoga Tantra level) he had just finished. The date was 2/4/18. So although he may be making the same point, it was a different talk.
"The world is made of stories, not atoms."
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by conebeckham »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:43 pm
Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:21 pm So I think I tracked down the Karmapa story, which adds context and does not appear controversial at all:
The Karmapa followed his explanation with a pertinent story of the first meeting between Gampopa (1079-1135, the founder of the Dakpo Kagyu lineage), and his disciple Geshe Phakmo Drukpa (1110-1170, a lineage holder, whose activity was the greatest among Gampopa’s disciples).
The HHK 17 quote was the last two sentences of his teaching on the Green Tara (yoga Tantra level) he had just finished. The date was 2/4/18. So although he may be making the same point, it was a different talk.
Then Phakmo Drukpa said, “I have a question that I always ask: What is the root of samsara?” Gampopa replied, “Your present mind.” This evoked such a deep feeling in Phakmo Drukpa that right then and there he attained realization.
This seems like the same point. The emphasis that Brunnhölzl is making is that the obscurations aren’t just some extraneous aspect of our minds, but the entirety of our experience is the obscuration.
I think you're right that it's the same basic point, but it's hard to say, without the actual context.

Regarding the point Brunnholzl was making--here is my take: there is no such thing as an "extraneous aspect of our mind." There is body, and mind, and these are the foundations of what we call a sentient being. It's fairly easy to determine that one's body is not "essential" as we experience and can observe aging and change, as well as the potential for loss of limbs, etc., which do not appear to change one's concept of personhood (though not having experienced such misfortune, I can only assume).

Most of us intuit that "mind," or some sort of conscious quality, is where our "selfhood" would be found. Thoughts, streams of ideation, mentation, memories, sensations, emotional responses, etc. seem to be "us." To think that there is some "portion" of consciousness which is covered by obscurations is incorrect. But I think it's also incorrect to say that "the entirety of our experience is the obscuration." Why? Because that leaves no room or chance for a direct experience of Mind Itself, or "Ordinary Mind," Thamal Gyi Shepa, you know? Certainly the "contents" of our mental lives are not Buddhanature. But at the same time, the Nature of all that conscious experience, the awareness of it, can be experienced individually. This "object of experience" is no object, though.....there is nothing that can be pointed to, no way to parse it out from the contents of thoughts, perceptions, etc.

As long as we look for BuddhaNature in our mind, we will not find BuddhaNature. But by the same token, this Tathagatagarbha is never separated from consciousness--or from "experience," if you prefer. Thoughts and mental objects are not equivalent to Tathagatagarbha, but the very nature of that thought or mental object, which is empty and cannot be found, but at the same time is clear and lucid, luminous, is beyond conceptual mind, and Immediate.

That's my personal take on it, FWIW. People can pick it apart at their pleasure! :smile:
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by conebeckham »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:48 pm
Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:17 pm What does that even mean? Out of context, it is difficult to tell.
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:28 pm However Karmapa #17 said in New York (2/4/18), and I think this is an exact quote, "The fundamental problem isn't 'ignorance'. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now."
Well I think it possible that he is saying what Brunnhölzl said in different words. Brunnhölzl said it’s not that sentient beings have defilements, but that they are the defilements.

Or, my terms, everything we currently experience gets tossed out in order to become enlightened. We are the mud the lotus of enlightenment grows out of.
There is nothing you need to add.
There is nothing you need to toss out.

The lotus cannot flourish without roots in the mud, even after it has bloomed.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by nyonchung »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:48 pm
Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:17 pm What does that even mean? Out of context, it is difficult to tell.
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 3:28 pm However Karmapa #17 said in New York (2/4/18), and I think this is an exact quote, "The fundamental problem isn't 'ignorance'. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now."
Well I think it possible that he is saying what Brunnhölzl said in different words. Brunnhölzl said it’s not that sentient beings have defilements, but that they are the defilements.

Or, my terms, everything we currently experience gets tossed out in order to become enlightened. We are the mud the lotus of enlightenment grows out of.
Needs more research on what the Karmapa said, since on many points contradicts versions I saw about Gampopa ang Phagmodrupa's meeting
Gampopa's saying is either not mentioned or is much longer (Lho rong chos 'byung p. 312) and more explicite about "present mind"
"Present mind" seems to refer to gnyug pa sems / innate/natural mind , a technical term
And Brunnhölzl ideas contradict totally the Third Karmapa, no other way, if 'sentient beings are the defilements, so what, we destroy them? the Karmapa OTD (like his precdecessor) says precisely to look inside to start solve the pblm.
Plus this not even a shentongpa idea where veils are "temporary / occasional" lo bur
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Matt J »

I think what he is saying is that Buddhanature + defilements = sentient beings, rather than Buddhanature is something sentient have like a heart or a hand.

I haven't heard that everything we experience gets tossed out--- actually the opposite.
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:48 pm Or, my terms, everything we currently experience gets tossed out in order to become enlightened. We are the mud the lotus of enlightenment grows out of.
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

I think what he is saying is that Buddhanature + defilements = sentient beings,
Brunnhölzl is saying this is incorrect—at least within the narrow context of HHK #3 and #8

What the Karmapa #17 meant I can only speculate. And yes, the Green Tara was on the same day but I don’t see it on the video.
Last edited by Schrödinger’s Yidam on Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Matt J »

Seems like what HHK is saying is that instead of seeking intellectual teachings about the theoretical underpinnings of ignorance, we have to work with our present mind. As the summary on his own website say:

“Ignorance can be found only in our present mind and nowhere else. We should reflect on this. We don’t need to study about what is truly existent or not truly existent. We will discover that phenomena are not truly existent by investigating our present consciousness itself.”

It seems pretty clear to me.
Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:48 pm Or, my terms, everything we currently experience gets tossed out in order to become enlightened. We are the mud the lotus of enlightenment grows out of.
"The world is made of stories, not atoms."
--- Muriel Rukeyser
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:38 pm Seems like what HHK is saying is that instead of seeking intellectual teachings about the theoretical underpinnings of ignorance, we have to work with our present mind. As the summary on his own website say:

“Ignorance can be found only in our present mind and nowhere else.
And I’m quoting him as saying “The fundamental problem isn’t ignorance. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now.”

The video is from the same day but doesn’t include the Green Tara portion of the program. Green Tara was in the evening at the end of a long day.
Last edited by Schrödinger’s Yidam on Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by nyonchung »

The Blue Annals says nothing, no "present mind", but tsampa
Lho rong chos 'byung (p. 312) l. 3 is much more detailed than the Karmapa's version
"dge bshes khams pa khyod de la sgom byed dam gsungs pas / rje sa skya pas bcos smin sems kyi ngo / gnyug ma sems kyi rang mgo nyams sde stong la rgyun chad med / shes pa'i spu ris thon pa'i mthong lam rnal 'byor mi rtogs pa'i ye shes pa'i / zhes sgom du ngo sprod lags zhes zhus pas ... I stop here 8 more lines and it's late here in France
but the swallowing of the ball of tsampa follows a very short instruction on Mahamudra and symbolizes both the teaching and the way to absorb it -
This is'nt the main subject here, but the meaning is very different ...
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
Malcolm
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Malcolm »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:43 pm but the entirety of our experience is the obscuration.
That would make bondage inherent and liberation impossible. You sure you want to go down that route?
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nyonchung
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by nyonchung »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:46 pm
Matt J wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:38 pm Seems like what HHK is saying is that instead of seeking intellectual teachings about the theoretical underpinnings of ignorance, we have to work with our present mind. As the summary on his own website say:

“Ignorance can be found only in our present mind and nowhere else.
And I’m quoting him as saying “The fundamental problem isn’t ignorance. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now.”

The video I’d from the same day but doesn’t include the Green Tara portion of the program. Green Tara was in the evening at the end of a long day.
The Third Karmapa (otherwise used wrongly by Brunnhölzl) clearly states that ma rig pa is the basic problem, through its power rang rig (self awareness is a bad translation) fancies a self (bdag) etc ..., of course we are not looking to find this in other people's mind - but why "present mind"? is it specified in the teachings
I guess that when the Gyelwang Karmapa says "The fundamental problem isn’t ignorance. The fundamental problem is the mind you have right now" is not willing to contradict himself or Kagyü forefathers but speaks now on a practical POW for, well, beginners - watch our own mind (and it will be for a long time).
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
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Re: video of Brunnhölzl: Buddha Nature as a radical teaching

Post by Matt J »

I'm don't think he is saying that. From When the Clouds Part, p. 303:
In more detail, the introduction refutes all external phenomenon and affirms the internal nature of the mind as being the dharmakaya--- the inseparability of the unconditioned expanse and self-arisen, self-aware wisdom, whose nature is lucid and unceasing. All adventitious stains are nothing but thoughts, and through realizing the luminous nature of the mind and letting thoughts be as lucid wisdom in an uncontrived manner, their essence is realized as lacking any root and thus they are self-liberated. In other words, sentient beings are nothing but the adventitious flaws of thoughts and therefore one familiarizes with them as being nonentities. Buddhahood is nothing but the luminosity of one's own mind having become free from these adventitious stains. Without thoughts and clinging, everything that appears and exists dawns as the essence of the three kayas.
In his footnote, he quotes the same text where it says: "through realizing one's own mind, there is not the slightest to be removed because there is no sentient being to be relinquished apart from [mind's] playing as thoughts without a basis." He also quotes HHK 3/8. He wraps up the footnote by stating "Clinging to the personal self and the resultant notion of a sentient being is just like being stuck in a claustrophobic and gloomy outlook of fixating on the configuration of one of these clouds (which moreover keeps changing all the time) from within that cloud, while being aware of the cloudless and sunlit expanse of the sky without any reference points resembles the non conceptual wisdom of the dharmadhatu of the buddha."

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:37 pm
I think what he is saying is that Buddhanature + defilements = sentient beings,
Brunnhölzl is saying this is incorrect—at least within the narrow context of HHK #3 and #8

What the Karmapa #17 meant I can only speculate. And yes, the Green Tara was on the same day but I don’t see it on the video.
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