a question

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.
master of puppets
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a question

Post by master of puppets »

I've begin daily cleansing of mind slowly.

my question is,
Is everything (from simple issues to ordinary events) about my mind cleansing?

Would this kind of perception be true?


:juggling:
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PadmaVonSamba
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Re: a question

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

What is ‘cleansing of mind’ , cleansing the mind?
What does that mean?
I’ve never heard of it.
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master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:30 pm What is ‘cleansing of mind’ , cleansing the mind?
What does that mean?
I’ve never heard of it.
It is letting nothing in mind except the mind.

I have accept this as the teaching and finally have been began practicing today.

It was a weak day of the first day practicing. Easyly run into thoughts and get lost.

Tomorrow will begin early and in more willing.

Also try to expand the whole day.
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Ayu
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Re: a question

Post by Ayu »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:21 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:30 pm What is ‘cleansing of mind’ , cleansing the mind?
What does that mean?
I’ve never heard of it.
It is letting nothing in mind except the mind.

I have accept this as the teaching and finally have been began practicing today.

It was a weak day of the first day practicing. Easyly run into thoughts and get lost.

Tomorrow will begin early and in more willing.

Also try to expand the whole day.
Better take little steps, if it's new for you. Maybe your strategy has to be adjusted. Who gave this practice to you? Is there a lineage and a blessing?
This is regarded as very important in all buddhist traditions. Everyone wants to know, if it comes from the Buddha eventually. Otherwise you should not waste your time on it.
The teaching has to be genuine, otherwise it can be unhealthy. Especially don't teach it to others.
For the benefit and ease of all sentient beings. :heart:
reiun
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Re: a question

Post by reiun »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:21 pm I've begin daily cleansing of mind slowly.

my question is,
Is everything (from simple issues to ordinary events) about my mind cleansing?

Would this kind of perception be true?


:juggling:
No, imo it would not be a true perception of Buddhist practice. It would be a mistake, again imo, to decide to start a practice without a teacher's guidance, especially when many more teachers are now available online, due to Covid.

Yes, You Need a Teacher.

Pro and con discussion.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: a question

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:21 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:30 pm What is ‘cleansing of mind’ , cleansing the mind?
What does that mean?
I’ve never heard of it.
It is letting nothing in mind except the mind.

I have accept this as the teaching and finally have been began practicing today.

It was a weak day of the first day practicing. Easyly run into thoughts and get lost.

Tomorrow will begin early and in more willing.

Also try to expand the whole day.
What exactly do you think "isn't mind" that you need to exclude or cleanse?
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

Ayu wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:35 pm
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:21 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:30 pm What is ‘cleansing of mind’ , cleansing the mind?
What does that mean?
I’ve never heard of it.
It is letting nothing in mind except the mind.

I have accept this as the teaching and finally have been began practicing today.

It was a weak day of the first day practicing. Easyly run into thoughts and get lost.

Tomorrow will begin early and in more willing.

Also try to expand the whole day.
Better take little steps, if it's new for you. Maybe your strategy has to be adjusted. Who gave this practice to you? Is there a lineage and a blessing?
This is regarded as very important in all buddhist traditions. Everyone wants to know, if it comes from the Buddha eventually. Otherwise you should not waste your time on it.
The teaching has to be genuine, otherwise it can be unhealthy. Especially don't teach it to others.
I have no teacher except you.

Reading over 20 years and finally begin practicing.

Oxherding is my road map, and emptying the mind 7/24 is my final goal.

I read and think enough.

Time to take steps,

I have famous masters lesson to me, still reading them.
master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:23 pm
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:21 pm
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:30 pm What is ‘cleansing of mind’ , cleansing the mind?
What does that mean?
I’ve never heard of it.
It is letting nothing in mind except the mind.

I have accept this as the teaching and finally have been began practicing today.

It was a weak day of the first day practicing. Easyly run into thoughts and get lost.

Tomorrow will begin early and in more willing.

Also try to expand the whole day.
What exactly do you think "isn't mind" that you need to exclude or cleanse?
Good question. I just begin today. I guess you mean the work should not be like a work.

I'll try. But when a thought appears I feel uncomfortable.
Because I get lost.
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Re: a question

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:35 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:23 pm
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:21 pm

It is letting nothing in mind except the mind.

I have accept this as the teaching and finally have been began practicing today.

It was a weak day of the first day practicing. Easyly run into thoughts and get lost.

Tomorrow will begin early and in more willing.

Also try to expand the whole day.
What exactly do you think "isn't mind" that you need to exclude or cleanse?
Good question. I just begin today. I guess you mean the work should not be like a work.

I'll try. But when a thought appears I feel uncomfortable.
Because I get lost.
Suppressing thoughts is not meditation, and in fact is a really bad idea, generally speaking. If you want to look for Mahayana instruction in working with antidotes that might be good for when you have disturbing thoughts. You might look at some Lojong teachings, or just read Santideva.

That said, "thoughts" are not different from "mind", any attempt to suppress them should only be a part of a skillful means, such as practicing concentrated meditation or applying antidotes. Literally trying to not think them is impossible, and will only increase your neuroses.

Producing thoughts is what minds do, wanting your mind to be a blank slate is a kind of fault of and within itself. Of course you can experience moments of stillness that can be quite wonderful, but the goal of Buddhist meditation is to stop grasping after thoughts and phenomena, not to make them go away or hide from them.

Trying to hide from disturbing emotions and thoughts ends up being what is sometimes termed "spiritual bypassing" and is a way of hiding under the guise of spirituality. Instead, in Buddhist meditation the basic goal of Shamatha is be able to see thoughts etc. nakedly, as they are and to let them pass without doing anything. The mind will quiet naturally, but not because you are pushing it around.

I think you should find a formal teacher, or at least just find a reputable meditation teacher on YouTube whose instructions you can follow.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:44 pm
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:35 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:23 pm

What exactly do you think "isn't mind" that you need to exclude or cleanse?
Good question. I just begin today. I guess you mean the work should not be like a work.

I'll try. But when a thought appears I feel uncomfortable.
Because I get lost.
Suppressing thoughts is not meditation, and in fact is a really bad idea, generally speaking. If you want to look for Mahayana instruction in working with antidotes that might be good for when you have disturbing thoughts. You might look at some Lojong teachings, or just read Santideva.

That said, "thoughts" are not different from "mind", any attempt to suppress them should only be a part of a skillful means, such as practicing concentrated meditation or applying antidotes. Literally trying to not think them is impossible, and will only increase your neuroses.

Producing thoughts is what minds do, wanting your mind to be a blank slate is a kind of fault of and within itself. Of course you can experience moments of stillness that can be quite wonderful, but the goal of Buddhist meditation is to stop grasping after thoughts and phenomena, not to make them go away or hide from them.

I think you should find a formal teacher, or at least just find a reputable meditation teacher on YouTube whose instructions you can follow.
Thank you. Hope my practice will evolve in that direction.
master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

master of puppets wrote: I have famous masters lesson to me, still reading them.
It is possible that the half of the chinese masters have lesson to me. by dailyzen and others.
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Re: a question

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:55 pm
master of puppets wrote: I have famous masters lesson to me, still reading them.
It is possible that the half of the chinese masters have lesson to me. by dailyzen and others.
Are these masters actually teaching you to try to get rid of thoughts, or is it possible you are just reading them that way?
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
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Re: a question

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... -bypassing

Obviously this is just an article from the perspective of Western Pysch.

So basically, even from a conventional perspective, if you cannot simply experience thoughts and emotions without attachment or aversion, you will run into trouble.

Here's the guy who coined the phrase:

https://www.johnwelwood.com/articles/TR ... _uncut.pdf

Of course I'm not saying anyone in particular is doing this, but if you approach meditation as way to escape thoughts, rather than to escape grasping, I believe it can quickly turn into this.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:00 pm
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:55 pm
master of puppets wrote: I have famous masters lesson to me, still reading them.
It is possible that the half of the chinese masters have lesson to me. by dailyzen and others.
Are these masters actually teaching you to try to get rid of thoughts, or is it possible you are just reading them that way?
Just want my mind to be like a mirror.
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Re: a question

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:09 pm
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:00 pm
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:55 pm

It is possible that the half of the chinese masters have lesson to me. by dailyzen and others.
Are these masters actually teaching you to try to get rid of thoughts, or is it possible you are just reading them that way?
Just want my mind to be like a mirror.
A mirror continually reflects. In fact, without anything to reflect, it does not have the function of a mirror.

Appearance and emptiness are a union.
"...if you think about how many hours, months and years of your life you've spent looking at things, being fascinated by things that have now passed away, then how wonderful to spend even five minutes looking into the nature of your own mind."

-James Low
reiun
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Re: a question

Post by reiun »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:21 pm I've begin daily cleansing of mind slowly.
master of puppets wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 10:21 am ...these days listening 3 hours Trance Music & 3 hours Gothic Metal (alternating & recycled)

and sometimes Russian Rock (when happy :D )
When do you find time for coopering?

In the past, either here or on Zenspace, I think you have worked the topic of starting a practice quite thoroughly, apparently to no avail. Is this going to start all over again? Sounds like you may still already have what amounts to your own cleansing practice (Gothic/Trance) . . .
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master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

reiun wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:38 pm
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:21 pm I've begin daily cleansing of mind slowly.
master of puppets wrote: Sun May 17, 2020 10:21 am ...these days listening 3 hours Trance Music & 3 hours Gothic Metal (alternating & recycled)

and sometimes Russian Rock (when happy :D )

When do you find time for coopering?

In the past, either here or on Zenspace, I think you have worked the topic of starting a practice quite thoroughly, apparently to no avail. Is this going to start all over again? Sounds like you may still already have what amounts to your own cleansing practice (Gothic/Trance) . . .
Please don't judge me. A helping hand worth everything.
reiun
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Re: a question

Post by reiun »

master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:22 pm Please don't judge me. A helping hand worth everything.
The helping hand, in comments above, and plenty of times before has been: first, develop a relationship with a teacher, then, second, develop a practice based on the teaching.
Johnny Dangerous wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:44 pm I think you should find a formal teacher, or at least just find a reputable meditation teacher on YouTube whose instructions you can follow.
master of puppets wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:22 pm Hope my practice will evolve in that direction.
This is backwards.
Be fully alive
master of puppets
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Re: a question

Post by master of puppets »

My job is about empty mind the rest doesn't interest me.
reiun
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Re: a question

Post by reiun »

master of puppets wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:22 pm My job is about empty mind the rest doesn't interest me.
Empty mind, that is "cleansing" the mind as you have described it, has nothing to do with Buddhism.

You are on the wrong forum.
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