Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

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karmanyingpo
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Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

I have heard people imply that taking lung means you don't just take it to take it but you should intend to learn and do the practice. Which is all fine and well, and clearly it is important to respectfully treat the transmission as the precious and rare thing that it is but I can see some cases where this might be difficult or impossible. For example what if I attend a teaching to take a lung on a certain sadana and then the lama with a generous intention gives out five or six other transmissions that I don't even know what they are!

Or what if I get a transmission but not the teachings on a sadana and the sadana is straight forward and self explanitory where you just follow along with the text. Do I still need to get instructions about it or is it ok if I just do it. For example I got a riwo sang chod transmission awhile back without teachings. Text seems easy enough to just do. Alternately if I really do need to get instructions and teachings still, would it be ok if I just watched videos from a reputible lama about how to do it?

Sorry tried to keep it as short as possible but I have doubts

KN
thogme19
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by thogme19 »

Riwo Sangchod is 'easy'. oh my Buddha. you must be of highest capacity. I pay homage to you!
karmanyingpo
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

thogme19 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:20 am Riwo Sangchod is 'easy'. oh my Buddha. you must be of highest capacity. I pay homage to you!
Sorry I don't mean that mastering the practice is easy. Even ngondro is difficult for me, so I wouldn't say riwo sangchod is easy. But I meant easy in terms of following the instructions in the text, not easy in terms of doing it well.
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tobes
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by tobes »

There's no God watching you for every little failing or shortcoming.

If you show respect for what you have received and practice to the best of your ability - that is perfectly sufficient.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

tobes wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:23 am There's no God watching you for every little failing or shortcoming.

If you show respect for what you have received and practice to the best of your ability - that is perfectly sufficient.
:good:
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
karmanyingpo
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

tobes wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:23 am There's no God watching you for every little failing or shortcoming.

If you show respect for what you have received and practice to the best of your ability - that is perfectly sufficient.
That is true that there is no omniscient omnipotent God hovering above to punish and reward but I do believe there are dharmapalas and karmic cause and effect that may bite my ass LOL
thogme19
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by thogme19 »

karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:02 am
thogme19 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:20 am Riwo Sangchod is 'easy'. oh my Buddha. you must be of highest capacity. I pay homage to you!
Sorry I don't mean that mastering the practice is easy. Even ngondro is difficult for me, so I wouldn't say riwo sangchod is easy. But I meant easy in terms of following the instructions in the text, not easy in terms of doing it well.
for me, even following the instructions in the text is not easy. that's why i pay homage again
karmanyingpo
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

thogme19 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:37 am
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:02 am
thogme19 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 3:20 am Riwo Sangchod is 'easy'. oh my Buddha. you must be of highest capacity. I pay homage to you!
Sorry I don't mean that mastering the practice is easy. Even ngondro is difficult for me, so I wouldn't say riwo sangchod is easy. But I meant easy in terms of following the instructions in the text, not easy in terms of doing it well.
for me, even following the instructions in the text is not easy. that's why i pay homage again
Then I apologize again.
I posted that part because I realize there are parts of the practice I may be missing, doing incorrectly, etc. which is why I asked if it is necessary for all practices to get lung plus instruction. Some practices seem to be more straightforward than others (I should have picked a better example than Riwo!) so I wished to ask if all practices require lung and instruction or if some are okay to do with just lung.
If I had true confidence that I was so good at Riwo Sang Chod then I would not have even asked so I am really sorry for sounding so arrogant.

KN
PeterC
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by PeterC »

karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:44 am
thogme19 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:37 am
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:02 am

Sorry I don't mean that mastering the practice is easy. Even ngondro is difficult for me, so I wouldn't say riwo sangchod is easy. But I meant easy in terms of following the instructions in the text, not easy in terms of doing it well.
for me, even following the instructions in the text is not easy. that's why i pay homage again
Then I apologize again.
I posted that part because I realize there are parts of the practice I may be missing, doing incorrectly, etc. which is why I asked if it is necessary for all practices to get lung plus instruction. Some practices seem to be more straightforward than others (I should have picked a better example than Riwo!) so I wished to ask if all practices require lung and instruction or if some are okay to do with just lung.
If I had true confidence that I was so good at Riwo Sang Chod then I would not have even asked so I am really sorry for sounding so arrogant.

KN
The reason it's always good to get the tri is that there are often significant parts of the practice that are *not* described in the written sadhana, usually around visualization - and of course you don't know what they are, or whether they exist, unless you've had the tri. There are all sorts of sang offerings out there, the one I do occasionally is really simple and actually could be done with just the reading transmission by following the text. Others not so much.
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kirtu
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by kirtu »

Is it ever negative to receive a transmission?
Yes. From a person who is not qualified to give the transmission.
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:10 am I have heard people imply that taking lung means you don't just take it to take it but you should intend to learn and do the practice. Which is all fine and well, and clearly it is important to respectfully treat the transmission as the precious and rare thing that it is but I can see some cases where this might be difficult or impossible. For example what if I attend a teaching to take a lung on a certain sadana and then the lama with a generous intention gives out five or six other transmissions that I don't even know what they are!
Honestly different traditions treat this differently but if your guru gives you some transmission then that is that (so it is at least a blessing). There are some people who do hold these views however. My lamas (mostly Sakya and Nyingma) have never said or implied that this is a problem though. I think this is more a problem projected by students but I could be wrong (I may not understand the concerns involved).
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:10 am Or what if I get a transmission but not the teachings on a sadana and the sadana is straight forward and self explanitory where you just follow along with the text. Do I still need to get instructions about it or is it ok if I just do it. For example I got a riwo sang chod transmission awhile back without teachings. Text seems easy enough to just do. Alternately if I really do need to get instructions and teachings still, would it be ok if I just watched videos from a reputible lama about how to do it?
Sometimes it happens that you miss the instructions or they are never given for some reason. Usually you can still just practice the sadhana and you go back to the lama for clarification. This usually resolves the issue. But it also depends. I personally would not practice something if I had no idea at all what was going on. However I have felt that I didn't have enough in the way of instructions only to have a lama (who was always a guru) urge me to practice a specific sadhana though.

So Riwo Sang Chod is a practice to accumulate vast merit. Something like that you just practice and dedicate. It's almost like a common prayer in a sense although it is a terma. You can't really mess it up unless you don't generate bodhicitta, don't practice it and don't dedicate the merits. As long as you do that everything will be fine.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
karmanyingpo
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

kirtu wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:26 am
Is it ever negative to receive a transmission?
Yes. From a person who is not qualified to give the transmission.
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:10 am I have heard people imply that taking lung means you don't just take it to take it but you should intend to learn and do the practice. Which is all fine and well, and clearly it is important to respectfully treat the transmission as the precious and rare thing that it is but I can see some cases where this might be difficult or impossible. For example what if I attend a teaching to take a lung on a certain sadana and then the lama with a generous intention gives out five or six other transmissions that I don't even know what they are!
Honestly different traditions treat this differently but if your guru gives you some transmission then that is that (so it is at least a blessing). There are some people who do hold these views however. My lamas (mostly Sakya and Nyingma) have never said or implied that this is a problem though. I think this is more a problem projected by students but I could be wrong (I may not understand the concerns involved).
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 12:10 am Or what if I get a transmission but not the teachings on a sadana and the sadana is straight forward and self explanitory where you just follow along with the text. Do I still need to get instructions about it or is it ok if I just do it. For example I got a riwo sang chod transmission awhile back without teachings. Text seems easy enough to just do. Alternately if I really do need to get instructions and teachings still, would it be ok if I just watched videos from a reputible lama about how to do it?
Sometimes it happens that you miss the instructions or they are never given for some reason. Usually you can still just practice the sadhana and you go back to the lama for clarification. This usually resolves the issue. But it also depends. I personally would not practice something if I had no idea at all what was going on. However I have felt that I didn't have enough in the way of instructions only to have a lama (who was always a guru) urge me to practice a specific sadhana though.

So Riwo Sang Chod is a practice to accumulate vast merit. Something like that you just practice and dedicate. It's almost like a common prayer in a sense although it is a terma. You can't really mess it up unless you don't generate bodhicitta, don't practice it and don't dedicate the merits. As long as you do that everything will be fine.

Kirt
Wow Kirt thanks for this great response. You've educated me today. :good:
May I PM you? To properly respond to your points I need to talk about some things that I don't feel comfortable posting publicly at this time.

KN
karmanyingpo
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

PeterC wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:20 am
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:44 am
thogme19 wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:37 am

for me, even following the instructions in the text is not easy. that's why i pay homage again
Then I apologize again.
I posted that part because I realize there are parts of the practice I may be missing, doing incorrectly, etc. which is why I asked if it is necessary for all practices to get lung plus instruction. Some practices seem to be more straightforward than others (I should have picked a better example than Riwo!) so I wished to ask if all practices require lung and instruction or if some are okay to do with just lung.
If I had true confidence that I was so good at Riwo Sang Chod then I would not have even asked so I am really sorry for sounding so arrogant.

KN
The reason it's always good to get the tri is that there are often significant parts of the practice that are *not* described in the written sadhana, usually around visualization - and of course you don't know what they are, or whether they exist, unless you've had the tri. There are all sorts of sang offerings out there, the one I do occasionally is really simple and actually could be done with just the reading transmission by following the text. Others not so much.
This makes sense to me, crystal clear. So what I am getting is that sometimes it is ok to do it without the tri and other times it is not because there is info you need that is not written out.

KN
PeterC
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by PeterC »

karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:29 am So what I am getting is that sometimes it is ok to do it without the tri and other times it is not because there is info you need that is not written out.
...and you don’t know which it is unless...you get the tri. So get the tri.
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Let me ask any of you:
From an east-Asian Mahayana perspective, anyone can read the Sutra of Golden Light, learn from it, read commentaries, and so forth. Even the Shingon (Japanese Vajrayana) master Kukai wrote on the esoteric meaning of certain passages, explaining them from an esoteric perspective for an exoteric Mahayana audience.

I have also seen a Tibetan Lama offering a Lung for The Sutra of Golden Light. Since this is a sutra and not a tantra, what would be the difference between having a Lung and just reading it from an exoteric Mahayana perspective?
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
karmanyingpo
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

PeterC wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 4:44 pm
karmanyingpo wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:29 am So what I am getting is that sometimes it is ok to do it without the tri and other times it is not because there is info you need that is not written out.
...and you don’t know which it is unless...you get the tri. So get the tri.
Thanks for your advice :)
karmanyingpo
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by karmanyingpo »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 5:08 pm Let me ask any of you:
From an east-Asian Mahayana perspective, anyone can read the Sutra of Golden Light, learn from it, read commentaries, and so forth. Even the Shingon (Japanese Vajrayana) master Kukai wrote on the esoteric meaning of certain passages, explaining them from an esoteric perspective for an exoteric Mahayana audience.

I have also seen a Tibetan Lama offering a Lung for The Sutra of Golden Light. Since this is a sutra and not a tantra, what would be the difference between having a Lung and just reading it from an exoteric Mahayana perspective?
My understanding is that any sutric texts are open, lung or no. However that being the case if you have the lung it may give some extra juice to your study since it connects you with the lineage and provides blessing or inspiration from the lineage and teacher as well as a permission or blessing to study the text. But I am just a beginner so hopefully others will correct me if any of this info is not true.

KN
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Is it ever negative to receive a transmission

Post by FiveSkandhas »

Thank you for your answer karmanyingpo.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi
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