Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

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jet.urgyen
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by jet.urgyen »

KiwiNFLFan wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:39 am To those who carry a mala on your wrist or in your pocket in daily life, what do you do with it when you go to the toilet? I've heard that Tibetan Buddhists don't take sacred objects into bathrooms, which is also practiced by some Hindus. East Asian Mahayana Buddhists don't seem hung up on this - when I purchased a small omamori (protective talisman) of Guan Yin in Japan, I asked the woman in the shop in Japanese if it was okay to take it into the bathroom and she said it was fine.

So if you're in your own, do you find a place to stash the mala before going into the bathroom? Ever come back and find it gone?
it depends on the view you are training in.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by Terma »

javier.espinoza.t wrote: Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:42 pm
KiwiNFLFan wrote: Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:39 am To those who carry a mala on your wrist or in your pocket in daily life, what do you do with it when you go to the toilet? I've heard that Tibetan Buddhists don't take sacred objects into bathrooms, which is also practiced by some Hindus. East Asian Mahayana Buddhists don't seem hung up on this - when I purchased a small omamori (protective talisman) of Guan Yin in Japan, I asked the woman in the shop in Japanese if it was okay to take it into the bathroom and she said it was fine.

So if you're in your own, do you find a place to stash the mala before going into the bathroom? Ever come back and find it gone?
it depends on the view you are training in.
On one hand I don't really disagree with you, but we have to be a little careful I think. Though we may practice according to the views of the Vajrayana or the Great Perfection we have to be mindful of the views of others around us, in particular those who have an interest in the dharma. There are so many things that can be taken in a different way by those who do not practice according to these views.

I have been taught that the highest views should really be practiced more "inwardly" if this makes sense.

As for the OP I think at this point perhaps they might benefit more from taking the view that dharma items be treated with the highest respect to reflect the respect for the Buddha and his teachings.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by catmoon »

I have a number of malas, two nice ones and some very inexpensive ones. If I am going to carry one around with me, I take the simplest, cheapest and most functional one so I don't have to bother about it. This also means I don't get involved in the business of displaying malas as status items or bling items or fashion accessories, since anything that might be misused this way stays at home.

I don't practice in the bathroom, instead I apply the Zen principle "When you eat, just eat". Works for me.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Everything about malas is stuff people have made up over time.
Bathrooms are regarded as dirty places, and for most of the past 2500 years, didn't have flushing toilets or a sink for washing hands.
Even today, this is true for much of the world.
Modern bathrooms are comparatively clean, and some peoples bathrooms are spotless and sanitized constantly.
It has been noted that for your dog or cat to drink out of the toilet, the water is probably fresher than their water bowl.

Whether one wants to count mantras or whatever while they go to the bathroom,
perhaps dedicating it to the invisible smell-eating beings that are said to dwell around toilets, that's your decision to make.
My own view is that if one can practice dharma while in the bathroom, then so much better anywhere else one may be, so why not?
But that's probably not the conventional view.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by Terma »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:47 am Everything about malas is stuff people have made up over time.
Bathrooms are regarded as dirty places, and for most of the past 2500 years, didn't have flushing toilets or a sink for washing hands.
Even today, this is true for much of the world.
Modern bathrooms are comparatively clean, and some peoples bathrooms are spotless and sanitized constantly.
It has been noted that for your dog or cat to drink out of the toilet, the water is probably fresher than their water bowl.

Whether one wants to count mantras or whatever while they go to the bathroom,
perhaps dedicating it to the invisible smell-eating beings that are said to dwell around toilets, that's your decision to make.
My own view is that if one can practice dharma while in the bathroom, then so much better anywhere else one may be, so why not?
But that's probably not the conventional view.
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Would you take your dharma texts with you to recite while you sit on the toilet? No, I certainly wouldn't. I think it is best to respect dharma items as an extension of our respect to the Buddha and his teachings. For me, a mala would fall into this category. But many just view a mala as a simple "abacus" used for counting prayers and mantra's. It really is much more than that to a tantric practitioner but maybe we shouldn't say too much about those kinds of things.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by n8pee »

catmoon wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:35 am I have a number of malas, two nice ones and some very inexpensive ones. If I am going to carry one around with me, I take the simplest, cheapest and most functional one so I don't have to bother about it.
Isn't the one you've used the most technically the most 'valuable' one?
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by n8pee »

Would you take your dharma texts with you to recite while you sit on the toilet? No, I certainly wouldn't. I think it is best to respect dharma items as an extension of our respect to the Buddha and his teachings. For me, a mala would fall into this category. But many just view a mala as a simple "abacus" used for counting prayers and mantra's. It really is much more than that to a tantric practitioner but maybe we shouldn't say too much about those kinds of things.
I read dharma books on the toilet. I'm very careful about cleanliness and ensuring they are still treated with respect. They don't go on the floor or get touched by unclean hands. But if I can get in a few minutes of study I'd surely like too.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by DewachenVagabond »

As for bringing a mala or a dharma text into the bathroom, I avoid it as much as possible. But if I don't have anywhere safe to put it and worry it might be stolen, then I'll take it with me. While I think the ritual cleanliness aspect is important, I think it is more important that I don't lose them or get them stolen.

As for using malas in public, I've never heard anything against it, so it would be interesting to see the Guru Rinpoche quote where he advises against it. But I'm pretty sure it is also said that if one chants the mani mantra and people so much as see you, then they'll be blessed. I might look around for that quote to see where I got that idea, because it seems to imply the opposite of the "no malas in public" rule. Also, at least in pictures and videos it seems like Tibetans use malas and prayer wheels when they're walking around so I don't think it is a big deal. Members of my sangha have had people notice them in public, been asked if they were chanting manis, and subsequently been asked to pray for people. So it seems to me, assuming you're not doing it out of some kind of status symbol, then using your mala in public can be helpful. I've never heard of it being a problem. Seeing someone use a mala in public seems like the wrong kind of thing to get upset about. It is great to maintain the view but don't project it onto others when they don't have the same view.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by 明安 Myoan »

SonamTashi wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:16 pmBut I'm pretty sure it is also said that if one chants the mani mantra and people so much as see you, then they'll be blessed. I might look around for that quote to see where I got that idea, because it seems to imply the opposite of the "no malas in public" rule.
Lama Zopa Rinpoche of FPMT has said as much, for example here.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by Kris »

SonamTashi wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:16 pm As for using malas in public, I've never heard anything against it, so it would be interesting to see the Guru Rinpoche quote where he advises against it.
In Getse Mahahpandita Tsewang Chokdrub's Husk Of Unity he cites Guru Rinpoche in this regard:
  • Although a great many subsidiary samayas are taught,
    In brief this is what you should know:
    Do not show your rosary to others.

It is great to maintain the view but don't project it onto others when they don't have the same view.
Of course, I'm just following the instructions of my Guru and just sharing what I've learned. :smile:
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by Kris »

Another citation from the same text

Guru Rinpoche:
A consecrated rosary should be kept secret
And not used for other activities.
The profound path of the master.
-- Virūpa, Vajra Lines
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

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So how does one explain all those Tibetans wandering around publicly using their mala and saying mantra?
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by heart »

Grigoris wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:41 pm So how does one explain all those Tibetans wandering around publicly using their mala and saying mantra?
You can have several malas you know.

/magnus
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by pemachophel »

I completely agree that the mala you use to actually "accumulate" mantra should never be shown to others and, more importantly, never be handled by others. However, that doesn't mean you can't have a "walking around mala" for continuing to say mantras and prayers in public. Personally, this is what I have always done. Many Lamas will not let you count any mantra towards a specific accumulation that is not said during a formal session (thun). Some will not let you count any mantra towards a specific accumulation that are not counted in retreat. But that doesn't mean one should not say mantra 24/7. Eventually the mantra becomes self-perpetuating and, therefore, a walking around mala becomes unnecessary.

Some mantra are good to be heard in public, like the Mani and Tara. Others are super-secret and must not be heard by others. No one-size rule.

Saying that many Tibetans, Sikkimese, Bhutanese, etc. do this or that is not a good justification for "best practices" within the Dharma. Many, many Tibetan laypersons and even many, many monks are not all that well educated in the Dharma. IMO, best to do what one's personal Teacher says to do or base one's practice on an authoritative text.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by PadmaVonSamba »

Terma wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:50 am
Would you take your dharma texts with you to recite while you sit on the toilet? No, I certainly wouldn't. I think it is best to respect dharma items as an extension of our respect to the Buddha and his teachings. For me, a mala would fall into this category. But many just view a mala as a simple "abacus" used for counting prayers and mantra's. It really is much more than that to a tantric practitioner but maybe we shouldn't say too much about those kinds of things.
In terms of relative truth, yes, I can see your point. The bathroom is conceptually regarded as a dirty place.
In terms of ultimate truth, if you are practicing vajrayana, then of course, you at least understand beyond the duality of clean/dirty
and can practice going beyond illusory appearances, and see all phenomena as both empty of intrinsic characteristics,
and primordially pure.
So, maybe the bathroom is a good place to practice that.

But, if you don't want to have a mala on you when you're in the bathroom, that's fine. don't do it.

These days, the whole world is a toilet.
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by Terma »

PadmaVonSamba wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:11 pm [These days, the whole world is a toilet.
Haa haa, yes sometimes it seems that way. :D
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by Simon E. »

heart wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:47 pm
Grigoris wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:41 pm So how does one explain all those Tibetans wandering around publicly using their mala and saying mantra?
You can have several malas you know.

/magnus
I bet most Tibetans don't have several. Can you actually imagine most Tibetans having one mala that they walk around with and another that they keep hidden in case it becomes contaminated by normal human biological processes?
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by Grigoris »

heart wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:47 pm
Grigoris wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:41 pm So how does one explain all those Tibetans wandering around publicly using their mala and saying mantra?
You can have several malas you know.

/magnus
And you can have several yidam.

What is your point?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by heart »

Grigoris wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:05 pm
heart wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:47 pm
Grigoris wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:41 pm So how does one explain all those Tibetans wandering around publicly using their mala and saying mantra?
You can have several malas you know.

/magnus
And you can have several yidam.

What is your point?
I have malas I use in public and some that no one can see. I assume that is why many monks and nuns for example carry their mala visible.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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Re: Question for those who carry a mala in daily life

Post by heart »

Simon E. wrote: Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:03 am
heart wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:47 pm
Grigoris wrote: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:41 pm So how does one explain all those Tibetans wandering around publicly using their mala and saying mantra?
You can have several malas you know.

/magnus
I bet most Tibetans don't have several. Can you actually imagine most Tibetans having one mala that they walk around with and another that they keep hidden in case it becomes contaminated by normal human biological processes?
No, the point of the hidden mala is that you only use it while in retreat and so it is a part of Samaya. The normal human biological processes are not the problem.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
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