The Importance of the Body
The Importance of the Body
Osel Hita shared this video on facebook.
In my mind the question arises: is Buddhism neglecting the physical body too much? Is the idea of "Love it or leave it" integrated anywhere in Buddhist philosophy?
In my mind the question arises: is Buddhism neglecting the physical body too much? Is the idea of "Love it or leave it" integrated anywhere in Buddhist philosophy?
Re: The Importance of the Body
Hello Ayu,
I like to respond to what is said in the youtube:
The other problem is when there is said all is illusion or dream, the conceptual mind can think: there is just a void. This is the other extreme. This would be dangerous ideation. Then the child need no food, the sick no medicine...no need for Awaken Nature to awaken “us” since all is void-idea. It would be clinging to concept emptiness. Emptiness and appearances are like a mirror and reflections, the images cannot be taken out as independent things. We should not identify with a reflection, or with form, or with appearance, while no need to reject any at all. Not clinging is not same as rejecting.
I like to respond to what is said in the youtube:
This sounds as appearances is all there is, even the body is useful tool. Identifying with the body I really do not think is the way to do. Since the body just as all phenomena/appearances are always changing. But the body is not the problem, clinging to it as being a real independent existence is the problem.Your body is everything, there is nothing else.
The other problem is when there is said all is illusion or dream, the conceptual mind can think: there is just a void. This is the other extreme. This would be dangerous ideation. Then the child need no food, the sick no medicine...no need for Awaken Nature to awaken “us” since all is void-idea. It would be clinging to concept emptiness. Emptiness and appearances are like a mirror and reflections, the images cannot be taken out as independent things. We should not identify with a reflection, or with form, or with appearance, while no need to reject any at all. Not clinging is not same as rejecting.
Guidance by Awaken Nature and then this can happen to be actualized. In general the union of the two truths (there is no split between) is a way to understand, through investigation and then meditation, through (nondual) equipoise.Though shifting appearances ceaselessly rise,
just be unattached as a child at play. Tsultrim Gyamtso
Re: The Importance of the Body
What are Buddha's three doors? BODY, Speech and mind. What is the BODY of a vajrayana practitioner? The DEITY. What is the point of having realized the DharmaKAYA? To manifest the sambhogaKAYA and the NIRMANAKAYA. Actually Buddhism is not negative about the body. To the contrary, in Buddhism the body is God, because this body may benefit all sentient beings, like the Sun. And when this body realized the truth, it absolutely will, because that is its nature.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
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Re: The Importance of the Body
As far as I can tell, the Vajrayana is all about the body. In other parts of Buddhism, maybe not Zen so much, the body seems to be somewhat neglected, it's true. The importance of the body is one of the central themes of Reginald Ray's teaching and I think this is a great contribution on his part, see e.g. https://www.dharmaocean.org/meditation/ ... editation/.
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: The Importance of the Body
Noticing a central feature of Vajrayāna (the body) that is stressed over and over again in the teachings hardly rates as a "great contribution."dzogchungpa wrote:As far as I can tell, the Vajrayana is all about the body. In other parts of Buddhism, maybe not Zen so much, the body seems to be somewhat neglected, it's true. The importance of the body is one of the central themes of Reginald Ray's teaching and I think this is a great contribution on his part, see e.g. https://www.dharmaocean.org/meditation/ ... editation/.
Secondly, the first foundation of mindfulness is the foundation of mindfulness of the body, so one cannot maintain that paths of renunciation neglect the body either.
The reality is that since the body culture of India and Tibet was only come to us in fragments and dribs and drabs, quite often people overlook the vast literature on physical cultural, health, and illness that exists in these traditions, or because of biomedical prejudice, ignore it.
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Re: The Importance of the Body
Well, Ray does a lot more than "notice" it, but whatevs.Malcolm wrote:Noticing a central feature of Vajrayāna (the body) that is stressed over and over again in the teachings hardly rates as a "great contribution."
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
Re: The Importance of the Body
The body is important tool to realize selflesness nature, like diety practice as example.
This is not merely a flesh and bone 'thing'.
This is not merely a flesh and bone 'thing'.
All phenomena outside and inside
Decay each moment, they have no power to remain. Tsultrim Gyamtso.
Re: The Importance of the Body
My mother always warned me about listening to testosterone-pumped muscle-bound white guys wearing Odin's Hammer around their neck ranting on about how the body is "everything" (the crypto-fascist bells tend to go off really loudly).
But Dominatrix ex-nuns in latex talking about "awakening to their body" well...
http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news ... ef=mr&lp=5
As for his dumb-ass theory that they cannot take away your body: he should spend some time talking to people in jail, or people that have been tortured, or maybe he can talk to some rape victims or victims of childhood sexual violence.
But Dominatrix ex-nuns in latex talking about "awakening to their body" well...
http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news ... ef=mr&lp=5
As for his dumb-ass theory that they cannot take away your body: he should spend some time talking to people in jail, or people that have been tortured, or maybe he can talk to some rape victims or victims of childhood sexual violence.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: The Importance of the Body
Ayu wrote:Is the idea of "Love it or leave it" integrated anywhere in Buddhist philosophy?
- My oh my! It hurts sometimes
Oh my oh my! It hurts sometimes
I think I’m running out of time
Before I’m gonna lose my mind
Sounds kinda Buddhist. More so if you replace "sometimes" with "all the time," and "lose my mind" with "be reborn."
Re: The Importance of the Body
dzogchungpa wrote:Well, Ray does a lot more than "notice" it, but whatevs.Malcolm wrote:Noticing a central feature of Vajrayāna (the body) that is stressed over and over again in the teachings hardly rates as a "great contribution."
The entire practice of Vajrayana is predicated on the body and the experience of being embodied.
Re: The Importance of the Body
Perhaps a more straightforward question would be: how often do you visit the gym?
Re: The Importance of the Body
boda wrote:Perhaps a more straightforward question would be: how often do you visit the gym?
Irrelevant.
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Re: The Importance of the Body
He teaches on this in detail. I mean if you have an actual critique of him that's great but, pretending he merely "notices" or only teaches mindfulness of the body etc. is not so.Malcolm wrote:dzogchungpa wrote:Well, Ray does a lot more than "notice" it, but whatevs.Malcolm wrote:Noticing a central feature of Vajrayāna (the body) that is stressed over and over again in the teachings hardly rates as a "great contribution."
The entire practice of Vajrayana is predicated on the body and the experience of being embodied.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: The Importance of the Body
Johnny Dangerous wrote:He teaches on this in detail. I mean if you have an actual critique of him that's great but, pretending he merely "notices" or only teaches mindfulness of the body etc. is not so.Malcolm wrote:dzogchungpa wrote:
Well, Ray does a lot more than "notice" it, but whatevs.
The entire practice of Vajrayana is predicated on the body and the experience of being embodied.
That is not what I said. What I said was: "Noticing a central feature of Vajrayāna (the body) that is stressed over and over again in the teachings hardly rates as a "great contribution" in response to chung's "The importance of the body is one of the central themes of Reginald Ray's teaching and I think this is a great contribution on his part."
If you have been around the block, Ray's contribution is not "great;" anyone who teaches anything to do with Vajrayāna must by definition frame these things with reference to the body. For example, in the very first teaching on Vajrayāna I ever received from HHST, he made it very clear that the main difference between Vajrayāna and other forms of Buddhism was our emphasis on methods connected with the body which are wholly absent in sūtra. This is why we have yantra yoga, prāṇāyama, and so on in Vajrayāna.
Then I mentioned that in common Mahāyāna etc., there is mindfulness of the body.
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Re: The Importance of the Body
I've taken teachings from HHST too, and of course anyone involved in Vajrayana understands the importance of "the body"...I hope.. I don't have a strong opinion on Ray, I like him but he's not a particular source of inspiration for me. That said, I still don't really understand your sharp criticism of him..If you have been around the block, Ray's contribution is not "great;"
If you're saying that he isn't teaching anything new, then I think you are basically right, but he doesn't claim to.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: The Importance of the Body
JD, I was not objecting to Ray in this case, I was objecting to chung's fanboy exaggeration.Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've taken teachings from HHST too. I don't have a strong opinion on Ray, I like him but he's not a particular source of inspiration for me. That said, I still don't really understand your sharp criticism of him..If you have been around the block, Ray's contribution is not "great;"
If you're saying that he isn't teaching anything new, then I think you are basically right, but he doesn't claim to.
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Re: The Importance of the Body
Gotcha.Malcolm wrote:JD, I was not objecting to Ray in this case, I was objecting to chung's fanboy exaggeration.Johnny Dangerous wrote:I've taken teachings from HHST too. I don't have a strong opinion on Ray, I like him but he's not a particular source of inspiration for me. That said, I still don't really understand your sharp criticism of him..If you have been around the block, Ray's contribution is not "great;"
If you're saying that he isn't teaching anything new, then I think you are basically right, but he doesn't claim to.
Well the last thing I will say on Ray is that he does write on this concept in plain language in English, he isn't saying anything different than anyone else really (and like I said, doesn't really claim to I don't think), but he is tryinga kind of Trungpa-style thing of demystified langauge etc. surrounding these concepts. Personally I found some of his writings helpful in de-cluttering my understanding of things, but everyone's mileage is different in that department.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: The Importance of the Body
Johnny Dangerous wrote:Gotcha.Malcolm wrote:JD, I was not objecting to Ray in this case, I was objecting to chung's fanboy exaggeration.Johnny Dangerous wrote:
I've taken teachings from HHST too. I don't have a strong opinion on Ray, I like him but he's not a particular source of inspiration for me. That said, I still don't really understand your sharp criticism of him..
If you're saying that he isn't teaching anything new, then I think you are basically right, but he doesn't claim to.
Look, people object often and loudly to my fanboy boosting of ChNN (the greatest master of Dzogchen alive today)...
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Re: The Importance of the Body
Malcolm wrote:Johnny Dangerous wrote:Gotcha.Malcolm wrote:
JD, I was not objecting to Ray in this case, I was objecting to chung's fanboy exaggeration.
Look, people object often and loudly to my fanboy boosting of ChNN (the greatest master of Dzogchen alive today)...
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
- Johnny Dangerous
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Re: The Importance of the Body
I think the OP video does not quite line up with what "the body" even is in Buddhism, but it nicely points out the emptiness of the person, by constantly referencing "MY body", as if the body is something we own or have dominion over. A nonsensical point of view, but the default one.
Most of western culture has a perverse relationship with "the body", it either fetishizes it or tires to shove it away in favor of a transcendental "mental" world. This dude seems like he is going in the first direction.
Now as to whether some Buddhists neglect taking care of their health..yeah, of course they do, but not IME any more than any other group.
I think it's safe to say that many people doing (for instance) Hatha Yoga these days are from a Buddhist perspective doing more harm than good by (incorrectly) practicing Yoga in a way where their identification with "body as self" grows stronger. With that as a backdrop, I am not sure that there is any real correlation in our culture between the pursuit physical health and...I guess you could say "spiritual" health. I have known a lot of very healthy people with a very warped view of "the body".
Most of western culture has a perverse relationship with "the body", it either fetishizes it or tires to shove it away in favor of a transcendental "mental" world. This dude seems like he is going in the first direction.
Now as to whether some Buddhists neglect taking care of their health..yeah, of course they do, but not IME any more than any other group.
I think it's safe to say that many people doing (for instance) Hatha Yoga these days are from a Buddhist perspective doing more harm than good by (incorrectly) practicing Yoga in a way where their identification with "body as self" grows stronger. With that as a backdrop, I am not sure that there is any real correlation in our culture between the pursuit physical health and...I guess you could say "spiritual" health. I have known a lot of very healthy people with a very warped view of "the body".
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama