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Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:30 pm
by Cinnabar
I was hoping somebody could translate this dharma name into Tibetan for me.

Thanks in advance.

Note: Yes. I know this isn’t a normal thing. But explain to me how it’s a bad thing, and I’ll drop it.
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F57BFA13-BE54-46AE-BC3C-9270A8EF2419.jpeg (380.22 KiB) Viewed 389 times

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:07 pm
by PadmaVonSamba
Yan 演 in this context means to display (the qualities of a Buddha).
Maybe this:

མངོན་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:02 am
by SilenceMonkey
Yan also comes from biaoyan 表演,which has the meaning of performance as if in a play. In the Lotus Sutra it talks about how buddhas and bodhisattvas will take on any aspect for the benefit of others, so it can be likened to manifesting in such a way as skillful means.

So maybe one could translate it as རོལ་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་ Rolpa Sangye.

Yan could also have the meaning of either development/progress: 演進 yanjin, 演變 yanbian

So maybe one could translate it as: སྨིན་གྲོལ་སངས་རྒྱས་ Mindrol Sangye, or སངས་རྒྱས་ཆོས་ཕེལ་ Sangye Chopel

It could also mean to expound: 演說 yanshuo (I think this one is more likely... to expound the sutras and buddha's teachings)

So maybe one could translate it as: སྟན་འཛིན་སངས་རྒྱས་ Tenzin Sangye (Tenzin means to carry the teachings), སྟན་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་ Tenpa Sangye (Tenpa means the teachings)

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:49 pm
by PeterC
Cinnabar wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 10:30 pm I was hoping somebody could translate this dharma name into Tibetan for me.

Thanks in advance.

Note: Yes. I know this isn’t a normal thing. But explain to me how it’s a bad thing, and I’ll drop it.

F57BFA13-BE54-46AE-BC3C-9270A8EF2419.jpeg
I'm going to take a guess here and say that the Dharma name of the monk who gave you vows started with "Chang" - correct?

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:58 pm
by PeterC
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:07 pm Yan 演 in this context means to display (the qualities of a Buddha).
Maybe this:

མངོན་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་
PvS: the context for "演" here is: "能仁圣果,常演宽宏". So probably best to emphasize qualities of awakening.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:29 pm
by Cinnabar
PeterC wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:49 pm I'm going to take a guess here and say that the Dharma name of the monk who gave you vows started with "Chang" - correct?
No, actually. Guo Dong Zheng Jiao.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:16 pm
by SilenceMonkey
Cinnabar wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:29 pm No, actually. Guo Dong Zheng Jiao.
Him?

https://www.dharmadrum.org/portal_b8_cn ... 4&cnt_id=3

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:58 pm
by Cinnabar
SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:16 pm
Cinnabar wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:29 pm No, actually. Guo Dong Zheng Jiao.
Him?

https://www.dharmadrum.org/portal_b8_cn ... 4&cnt_id=3
Yes.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 am
by PeterC
Cinnabar wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:29 pm
PeterC wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:49 pm I'm going to take a guess here and say that the Dharma name of the monk who gave you vows started with "Chang" - correct?
No, actually. Guo Dong Zheng Jiao.
Then strictly speaking, he gave you the wrong name

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:06 am
by Cinnabar
PeterC wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 am
Cinnabar wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:29 pm
PeterC wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:49 pm I'm going to take a guess here and say that the Dharma name of the monk who gave you vows started with "Chang" - correct?
No, actually. Guo Dong Zheng Jiao.
Then strictly speaking, he gave you the wrong name
Why did he give me the wrong name?

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:23 am
by Cinnabar
PadmaVonSamba wrote: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:07 pm Yan 演 in this context means to display (the qualities of a Buddha).
Maybe this:

མངོན་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་
Thanks for this.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:24 am
by Cinnabar
SilenceMonkey wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:02 am Yan also comes from biaoyan 表演,which has the meaning of performance as if in a play. In the Lotus Sutra it talks about how buddhas and bodhisattvas will take on any aspect for the benefit of others, so it can be likened to manifesting in such a way as skillful means.

So maybe one could translate it as རོལ་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་ Rolpa Sangye.

Yan could also have the meaning of either development/progress: 演進 yanjin, 演變 yanbian

So maybe one could translate it as: སྨིན་གྲོལ་སངས་རྒྱས་ Mindrol Sangye, or སངས་རྒྱས་ཆོས་ཕེལ་ Sangye Chopel

It could also mean to expound: 演說 yanshuo (I think this one is more likely... to expound the sutras and buddha's teachings)

So maybe one could translate it as: སྟན་འཛིན་སངས་རྒྱས་ Tenzin Sangye (Tenzin means to carry the teachings), སྟན་པ་སངས་རྒྱས་ Tenpa Sangye (Tenpa means the teachings)
Thanks a lot for this. Many possibilities.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:01 am
by PeterC
Cinnabar wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:06 am
PeterC wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 am
Cinnabar wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:29 pm

No, actually. Guo Dong Zheng Jiao.
Then strictly speaking, he gave you the wrong name
Why did he give me the wrong name?
Naming convention for Sheng Yan's students is that they follow the Linji lineage poem. Those receiving vows from Sheng Yan are called Guo X. Those receiving vows from Guo X are called Chang X. Those receiving vows from Chang X are called Yan X. Etc etc. I quoted the relevant line from the poem above. If you received vows from Guo Dong and were given a name starting Yan then he skipped a generation. Unless there's some other reason, i.e. you received it in a group and most of those people were students of someone in the Chang generation. But technically whoever gives you vows determines the name. But really these things don't matter very much - a name doesn't get you to enlightenment any faster.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:32 am
by PadmaVonSamba
Knowing that a phrase (name, a string of words) comes from a poem can make a difference in a translation because one can look at the context.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:56 pm
by Cinnabar
PeterC wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:01 am Naming convention for Sheng Yan's students is that they follow the Linji lineage poem. Those receiving vows from Sheng Yan are called Guo X. Those receiving vows from Guo X are called Chang X. Those receiving vows from Chang X are called Yan X. Etc etc. I quoted the relevant line from the poem above. If you received vows from Guo Dong and were given a name starting Yan then he skipped a generation. Unless there's some other reason, i.e. you received it in a group and most of those people were students of someone in the Chang generation. But technically whoever gives you vows determines the name. But really these things don't matter very much - a name doesn't get you to enlightenment any faster.
Makes total sense why I was name Yan and not Guo then.

No mistake.

Thanks for the info.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:26 pm
by SilenceMonkey
PeterC wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:01 am
Cinnabar wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:06 am
PeterC wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:05 am

Then strictly speaking, he gave you the wrong name
Why did he give me the wrong name?
Naming convention for Sheng Yan's students is that they follow the Linji lineage poem. Those receiving vows from Sheng Yan are called Guo X. Those receiving vows from Guo X are called Chang X. Those receiving vows from Chang X are called Yan X. Etc etc. I quoted the relevant line from the poem above. If you received vows from Guo Dong and were given a name starting Yan then he skipped a generation. Unless there's some other reason, i.e. you received it in a group and most of those people were students of someone in the Chang generation. But technically whoever gives you vows determines the name. But really these things don't matter very much - a name doesn't get you to enlightenment any faster.
Then again it would be a bit strange to give the name Chang to the new generation. They'd be as "old" as their seniors! I think some in the Chang generation have been practicing in the Dharma Drum lineage for 20 or 30 years.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Thu Apr 08, 2021 6:10 pm
by Cinnabar
SilenceMonkey wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:26 pm Then again it would be a bit strange to give the name Chang to the new generation. They'd be as "old" as their seniors! I think some in the Chang generation have been practicing in the Dharma Drum lineage for 20 or 30 years.
Given the generations of the monastics and masters involved, and my place in this event, it makes sense that I was given neither a Guo or Chang, but a Yan.

Re: Translation of Dharma Name

Posted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:45 am
by PeterC
SilenceMonkey wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:26 pm
PeterC wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:01 am
Cinnabar wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:06 am

Why did he give me the wrong name?
Naming convention for Sheng Yan's students is that they follow the Linji lineage poem. Those receiving vows from Sheng Yan are called Guo X. Those receiving vows from Guo X are called Chang X. Those receiving vows from Chang X are called Yan X. Etc etc. I quoted the relevant line from the poem above. If you received vows from Guo Dong and were given a name starting Yan then he skipped a generation. Unless there's some other reason, i.e. you received it in a group and most of those people were students of someone in the Chang generation. But technically whoever gives you vows determines the name. But really these things don't matter very much - a name doesn't get you to enlightenment any faster.
Then again it would be a bit strange to give the name Chang to the new generation. They'd be as "old" as their seniors! I think some in the Chang generation have been practicing in the Dharma Drum lineage for 20 or 30 years.
It’s not about age, it’s about who gave you vows.