Four Classical Indian Languages

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kirtu
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Four Classical Indian Languages

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In Book 6, Treasury of Knowledge, Kongtrul references the "four classical languages of India".

These are Sanskrit, Prakrit (Pali is a Prakrit language), Apabhraṃśa (there is Jain literature written in Apabhraṃśa) and Paiśācī.

Apabhraṃśa and Paiśācī appear to be Indo-Iranian languages. Apabhraṃśa languages were spoken in northern India and seem to have developed into modern Indo-Aryan languages. Paiśācī appears to be a strictly literary language.


from Wikipedia
The 13th-century Tibetan historian Buton Rinchen Drub wrote that the early Buddhist schools were separated by choice of sacred language: the Mahāsāṃghikas used Prākrit, the Sarvāstivādins used Sanskrit, the Sthaviravādins used Paiśācī, and the Saṃmitīya used Apabhraṃśa.
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Malcolm
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Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

Post by Malcolm »

kirtu wrote: Tue Dec 08, 2020 9:01 pm Paiśācī
Is Pali, the language of the Sthaviravādins.
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Aemilius
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Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

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Image
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

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Aemilius wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:48 am Image
Thanks!

Of course that is the current distribution of language families.

The northern limeish color distribution is mostly Hindi which is descended from Sanskrit but via a Prakrit language (pretty sure). I have never seen a detailed language family tree for Indo-Iranian languages as is commonly found for Indo-European languages.

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

Post by Malcolm »

kirtu wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:50 pm Sanskrit...
Is derived from Prakrit.
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kirtu
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Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

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Malcolm wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 2:59 pm
kirtu wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:50 pm Sanskrit...
Is derived from Prakrit.
While almost certainly the case in the sense that Sanskrit was derived from a predecessor language, this is definitely not the case from the classic Indian ("language of the gods") or Tibetan perspective.

So Sanskrit is almost invariably treated as a singular example of a language from which numerous other languages descended but the antecedents of Sanskrit are almost never covered even in western linguistics.

So I'm a bit surprised that you would label Sanskrit as derived from a Prakrit. The usual definition is that Prakrit is derived from Sanskrit (and most Hindu scholars would say that, and probably Kongtrul would have said that as well).

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

Post by Malcolm »

kirtu wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:20 pm The usual definition is that Prakrit is derived from Sanskrit (and most Hindu scholars would say that, and probably Kongtrul would have said that as well).
Sanskrit literally means "refined language." Prakrit literally means "natural language."

"When the term arose in India, "Sanskrit" was not thought of as a specific language set apart from other languages, but rather as a particularly refined or perfected manner of speaking. Knowledge of Sanskrit was a marker of social class and educational attainment and the language was taught mainly to members of the higher castes, through close analysis of Sanskrit grammarians such as Pāṇini. Sanskrit, as the learned language of Ancient India, thus existed alongside the Prakrits (vernaculars), which evolved into the modern Indo-Aryan languages (Hindi, Nepali, Assamese, Marathi, Konkani, Urdu, and Bengali)."

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sanskrit

This entry is very good, based on excellent sources.

"a particularly refined or perfected manner of speaking"

We have examples of Buddhist brahmins in the Pali cannon looking askance at lower caste monks' inability to correct pronounce long and short syllables, like a and ā, and the Buddha rebuking them for their arrogance. A sort of tomato and tomato kind of thing.
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Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

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Malcolm wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:43 pm
kirtu wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 6:20 pm The usual definition is that Prakrit is derived from Sanskrit (and most Hindu scholars would say that, and probably Kongtrul would have said that as well).
Sanskrit literally means "refined language." Prakrit literally means "natural language."

"When the term arose in India, "Sanskrit" was not thought of as a specific language set apart from other languages, but rather as a particularly refined or perfected manner of speaking. Knowledge of Sanskrit was a marker of social class and educational attainment and the language was taught mainly to members of the higher castes, through close analysis of Sanskrit grammarians such as Pāṇini. Sanskrit, as the learned language of Ancient India, thus existed alongside the Prakrits (vernaculars), which evolved into the modern Indo-Aryan languages (Hindi, Nepali, Assamese, Marathi, Konkani, Urdu, and Bengali)."

https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Sanskrit

This entry is very good, based on excellent sources.

"a particularly refined or perfected manner of speaking"

We have examples of Buddhist brahmins in the Pali cannon looking askance at lower caste monks' inability to correct pronounce long and short syllables, like a and ā, and the Buddha rebuking them for their arrogance. A sort of tomato and tomato kind of thing.
Excellent! Thanks!

Kirt
“Where do atomic bombs come from?”
Zen Master Seung Sahn said, “That’s simple. Atomic bombs come from the mind that likes this and doesn’t like that.”

"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
Aemilius
Posts: 4604
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:44 am

Re: Four Classical Indian Languages

Post by Aemilius »

kirtu wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 1:50 pm
Aemilius wrote: Fri Dec 11, 2020 11:48 am Image
Thanks!

Of course that is the current distribution of language families.

The northern limeish color distribution is mostly Hindi which is descended from Sanskrit but via a Prakrit language (pretty sure). I have never seen a detailed language family tree for Indo-Iranian languages as is commonly found for Indo-European languages.

Kirt
Image

States and union territories of India by the most commonly spoken first language
svaha
"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.
They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Sarvē mānavāḥ svatantrāḥ samutpannāḥ vartantē api ca, gauravadr̥śā adhikāradr̥śā ca samānāḥ ēva vartantē. Ētē sarvē cētanā-tarka-śaktibhyāṁ susampannāḥ santi. Api ca, sarvē’pi bandhutva-bhāvanayā parasparaṁ vyavaharantu."
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 1. (in english and sanskrit)
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