Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

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Dharmaswede
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Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Dharmaswede »

Any suggestions?
Nicholas2727
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Nicholas2727 »

The Great Middle Way by Khentrul Rinpoche
zerwe
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by zerwe »

I have read bits of The Essence of Other-Emptiness by Jetsun Taranatha trans. Jeffery Hopkins.
It has been many years and my interests focused elsewhere, but I would think that this would be
authoritative.

Shaun :namaste:
Nicholas2727
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Nicholas2727 »

zerwe wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:16 pm I have read bits of The Essence of Other-Emptiness by Jetsun Taranatha trans. Jeffery Hopkins.
It has been many years and my interests focused elsewhere, but I would think that this would be
authoritative.

Shaun :namaste:
This is a great book as well, although it may be difficult for someone looking for an intro into other emptiness. If you have a good foundation of Buddhist studies and Madhyamaka, The Essence of Other Emptiness is a great book.
zerwe
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by zerwe »

It might be worthwhile to check with Ven. Tashi Nyima at
https://greatmiddleway.wordpress.com
There also is a Jonang center in the Atlanta area.

Shaun :namaste:
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

There’s also one in Brooklyn, NY. I believe it has a resident khenpo.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
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Matt J
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Matt J »

My favorite:

Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso Rinpoche

https://www.namsebangdzo.com/Progressiv ... p/5774.htm

Also, Rangtong & Shentong Views: A Brief Explanation of the One Taste of the Second and Third Turnings of the Wheel of Dharma by the Khenpo Rinpoches.

https://www.padmasambhava.org/chiso/boo ... one-taste/
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Dorje Shedrub
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Dorje Shedrub »

Prajñāpāramitā, Indian "gzhan stong pas", and the Beginning of Tibetan gzhan stong, by Karl Brunhölzl, 2011.

Opening the Wisdom Door of the Ranting and Shetong Views, Khenchen Palden Shetab Rinpoche and Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal Rinpoche, 2007.

The Buddha Within; Tathagatagarbha Doctrine According to the Shentong Interpretation of the Ratnsgotravibhaga, S.K. Hookham, 1991.

A Juggernaut of the Non-Dual View; Ultimate Teachings of the Second Drukchen Gyalwang Je, Tony Duff, 2011

Instructions for Practicing the View of Other Emptiness; a Text of Oral Instructions by Jamgon Kongtrul, Tony Duff, 2011

The Lion's Roar that Proclaims Chanting, by Ju Mipham Namgyal, Tony Duff, 2010

Maitripa's Writings on the View; the Main Indian Source of the Tibetan Views if Other Emptiness and Mahamudra, Tony Duff, 2010.

The Theory and Practice of Other Emptiness Taught Through Milarepa's Songs, Tony Duff, 2011.
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Dharmaswede
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Dharmaswede »

Oh, wow. Thanks everyone. We are close to a very concise Shentong bibliography here!

Deep appreciation.
Schrödinger’s Yidam
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Schrödinger’s Yidam »

Dorje Shedrub wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 8:27 pm Prajñāpāramitā, Indian "gzhan stong pas", and the Beginning of Tibetan gzhan stong, by Karl Brunhölzl, 2011.

Opening the Wisdom Door of the Ranting and Shetong Views, Khenchen Palden Shetab Rinpoche and Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal Rinpoche, 2007.

The Buddha Within; Tathagatagarbha Doctrine According to the Shentong Interpretation of the Ratnsgotravibhaga, S.K. Hookham, 1991.

A Juggernaut of the Non-Dual View; Ultimate Teachings of the Second Drukchen Gyalwang Je, Tony Duff, 2011

Instructions for Practicing the View of Other Emptiness; a Text of Oral Instructions by Jamgon Kongtrul, Tony Duff, 2011

The Lion's Roar that Proclaims Chanting, by Ju Mipham Namgyal, Tony Duff, 2010

Maitripa's Writings on the View; the Main Indian Source of the Tibetan Views if Other Emptiness and Mahamudra, Tony Duff, 2010.

The Theory and Practice of Other Emptiness Taught Through Milarepa's Songs, Tony Duff, 2011.
Dolpopa was the one to say “the Emperor has no clothes” and laid out Other Emptiness as a view.

The Indian authors cited by Brunnhölzl, plus Milarepa’s Songs cited by Duff, and Maitripa also cited by Duff, all predate Dolpopa. So they have been retroactively named as Shentongpas. Don’t expect the term “Other Emptiness” to be found in their writings—although arguably the idea is there. They just couldn’t bring themselves to say the Emperor is naked.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Dharmaswede
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Dharmaswede »

Schrödinger’s Yidam wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:31 pm The Indian authors cited by Brunnhölzl, plus Milarepa’s Songs cited by Duff, and Maitripa also cited by Duff, all predate Dolpopa. So they have been retroactively named as Shentongpas. Don’t expect the term “Other Emptiness” to be found in their writings—although arguably the idea is there. They just couldn’t bring themselves to say the Emperor is naked.
Thank you, this is just incredibly helpful. I have just started reading on the topic and this question spontaneously arose although I wasn't able to formulate it clearly. Greatly appreciated.
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Gregory Wonderwheel
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Gregory Wonderwheel »

My recommendation is the Sutra that is the primary source for the teaching of what the Tibetans call "Other Emptiness" which is The Sutra of Queen Srimala's Lion's Rpar. There are a couple of published English translations, the one by Diana Paul is better than the one by the Waymans, though the Wayman's have pretty good footnotes. My translation is serialized on my blog Turning the Wheel of Wonder beginning here: https://wonderwheels.blogspot.com/2021/ ... -roar.html

In the second post of the series I summarize Section 9 of the Sutra with this comment:
Section 9 then introduces the topic of emptiness and says that the knowledge of the Inner-Tathagata is the Tathagata’s knowledge of emptiness. This section establishes the famous distinction between the “empty Inner-Tathagata” and the “non-empty Inner-Tathagata” that became the infamous debate in Tibetan Buddhism between “self-nature emptiness” (rangtong) verses “other emptiess” (shentong).
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Dharmaswede
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Dharmaswede »

Thank you, it certainly looks intriguing!
Gregory Wonderwheel wrote: Thu Jan 27, 2022 5:56 am My recommendation is the Sutra that is the primary source for the teaching of what the Tibetans call "Other Emptiness" which is The Sutra of Queen Srimala's Lion's Rpar. There are a couple of published English translations, the one by Diana Paul is better than the one by the Waymans, though the Wayman's have pretty good footnotes. My translation is serialized on my blog Turning the Wheel of Wonder beginning here: https://wonderwheels.blogspot.com/2021/ ... -roar.html

In the second post of the series I summarize Section 9 of the Sutra with this comment:
Section 9 then introduces the topic of emptiness and says that the knowledge of the Inner-Tathagata is the Tathagata’s knowledge of emptiness. This section establishes the famous distinction between the “empty Inner-Tathagata” and the “non-empty Inner-Tathagata” that became the infamous debate in Tibetan Buddhism between “self-nature emptiness” (rangtong) verses “other emptiess” (shentong).
_/|\_ Heavenly Donkey
stong gzugs
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by stong gzugs »

Here are some of my favorite reads on gzhan stong, focusing primarily on the Jonang other-emptiness view of Dölpopa and Tāranātha. These roughly go in a linear sequence of complexity, so I'd suggest starting with the first ones and then going forward from there. It's a mix of work by lamas and academics including translations and commentaries and summaries.

An Instruction to Lhajé Tsultrim Ö by Dölpopa
This is an idiosyncratic first recommendation, because it's just a letter Dölpopa sent, rather than some famous text. But there's something incredibly moving about it. It's very personal, very pithy, very inspiring and also very beautifully sums up even some of the more esoteric points of Kālacakra practice and how it differs from some of the essence tradition approaches. Here's the PDF.

The Philosophical Grounds and Literary History of Zhentong by Klaus-Dieter Mathes and Michael R. Sheehy
This is the introduction chapter to their 2020 book, The other emptiness: Rethinking the Zhentong Buddhist discourse in Tibet. It's an incredibly concise and useful academic overview of gzhan stong: its sources, development, etc.

The Dharma Handbook with Commentary by Tashi Nyima
Very simply and beautifully lays out the Jonang view from a practitioner perspective through Dölpopa Sherab Gyaltsen's The General Commentary on the Doctrine (which is the daily recitation covering the key points of the Jonang view) in a free PDF.

Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamtso
Overviews all the various stages of Buddhist meditation in terms of view and practice, starting from the foundational sravakayana vehicle and building onward in a sequence that culminates in gzhan stong as the highest view / practice for emptiness meditation.

The Buddha from Dölpo by Cyrus Stearns
The introduction section is lovely as it goes a bit further deeper than the previous ones and includes a translation of Dölpopa's Fourth Council along with autocommentary, his final major text, where he assembles so many dharma texts together and shows how they all integrate into the gzhan stong view, such that this text is like a Fourth Buddhist council, bringing many masters together to clarify the doctrine. Far more accessible than his Mountain Dharma.

The Great Middle Way: Clarifying the Jonang View of Other-Emptiness by Khentrul Rinpoche
Clarifies many of the fine points of difference between the gzhan stong and other views of emptiness and refutes many of the criticisms.

The Essence of Other-Emptiness by Tāranātha
Michael Sheehy and Jeffrey Hopkins have both translated it. A nice presentation of the various Buddhist and non-Buddhist views by Tāranātha and how they relate to gzhan stong.

Mountain Dharma by Dölpopa
Ives Waldo and Jeffrey Hopkins have both translated it. This is a huge text, Dölpopa's magnum opus that aims to show how the realization from the Kālacakra completion stage being practiced by the Jonang mountain hermits is the true intent of the Buddha, across all the various sutras and tantras. It could be nice to watch Thrangu Rinpoche's lecture series on it instead of going at it on your own.
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Vajrasvapna
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Vajrasvapna »

Dharmaswede wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:00 pm Any suggestions?
Jonang:
The Great Middle Way: Clarifying the Jonang View of Other-Emptiness

The Buddha from Dolpo: A Study of the Life and thought of the Tibetan Master Dolpopa Sherab Gyaltsen

Mountain Doctrine Tibet's Fundamental Treatise On Other-Emptiness & The Buddha Matrix

The Essence of Other-Emptiness

Karma Kagyu:
Luminous Heart: Essential Writings of Rangjung Dorje, the Third Karmapa

Nyingma:
Mipam on Buddha-nature: the Ground of the Nyingma Tradition
Silent Bob
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by Silent Bob »

Thrangu Rinpoche's new commentary, "Dolpopa's Mountain Dharma: the Birth of the Shentong View", has just been released and is available from Namo Buddha Publications.
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"
stong gzugs
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Re: Great intro books on Other-Emptiness?

Post by stong gzugs »

Silent Bob wrote: Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:42 pm Thrangu Rinpoche's new commentary, "Dolpopa's Mountain Dharma: the Birth of the Shentong View", has just been released and is available from Namo Buddha Publications.
Moreover, the PDF is FREE all throughout 2023 on the website. I read an advance version of this book and it's simply fantastic!
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