Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Discussion of the fifth religious tradition of Tibet.
spaces
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:00 am

Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by spaces »

Is there a vow to be vegetarian for Bonpos? Are such prominent teachers like Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche vegetarian? How it compares to Buddhism?
passel
Posts: 604
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 5:30 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by passel »

spaces wrote: Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:35 pm Is there a vow to be vegetarian for Bonpos? Are such prominent teachers like Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche vegetarian? How it compares to Buddhism?
I don't think it's super-common, but I don't really know. But I do know that an influential Bonpo lama from the late 1800s called Shardza Tashi Gyeltsen was a vegetarian. I think he had been a Buddhist but converted, part of the Rime. It's in this book:

https://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Brilli ... lly+gayley
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
spaces
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:00 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by spaces »

I've read somewhere that they have a vow of vegetarianism (but forgot the source). But I read it only once, and thus I don't know if it's true. But if it is, then it would interesting feature of Bon tradition.
MiphamFan
Posts: 1096
Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2015 5:46 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by MiphamFan »

Mutsuk said on Vajracakra that Bonpos had a vow of vegetarianism IIRC.
User avatar
justsit
Posts: 1466
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Delaware

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by justsit »

Here's a 2013 teaching from Tenzin Wangyal, a prominent Bon teacher in the US. At the end of the video it is noted that he became vegetarian five years previously, which implies being vegetarian is not required in Bon.

Kalden Yungdrung is a Bonpo posting on this site who might have more complete info.

spaces
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:00 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by spaces »

So maybe they (kalden yunrung) will post more definitive answer to that someday.
Yeah, that video implies that they are not and it's just a private decision. E.g. in this article:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... he-bonpos/
there is a mention that:
"Bon monks, unlike their Buddhist counterparts, are expected to be vegetarian."
Last edited by Grigoris on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Neutral pronoun added
spaces
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:00 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by spaces »

I forgot to mention - maybe this vow of vegetarianism is one the bonpos vow affecting only monks (and AFAIK Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche isn't a monk).
User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 4606
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by kalden yungdrung »

spaces wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:41 am So maybe they (kalden yunrung) will post more definitive answer to that someday.
Yeah, that video implies that they are not and it's just a private decision. E.g. in this article:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... he-bonpos/
there is a mention that:
"Bon monks, unlike their Buddhist counterparts, are expected to be vegetarian."
Tashi delek,

Well about vegetarism in Bön i can tell the following.

Menri Monastery is vegetarian whereas Triten Norbutse in Nepal are meat eaters. So H.E. the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche eats regular meat.

We see that with both diets one can obtain enlightenment. its a very personal case in Bön to be a vegetarian or not.


Mutsuk Marro
KY
Last edited by Grigoris on Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Meta-discussion removed
The best meditation is no meditation
mutsuk
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by mutsuk »

kalden yungdrung wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:16 am Menri Monastery is vegetarian
We hosted Menri Ponlob for several retreats here and he ate meet, same thing for his attendants..
whereas Triten Norbutse in Nepal are meat eaters.
True for some monks, but not for all. I know many of them who are strict vegetarians.
So H.E. the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche eats regular meat.
He used to, this has not been the case for the past ten or fifteen years.

In Bön, vegetarianism has been promoted by numerous masters. Most recently it was heavily stressed by Shardza Rinpoche and many of his disciples. There is however no rules established as canonical on this subject in Bon (but this is not the opinion of Shardza himself).
spaces
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:00 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by spaces »

So if I am an absolute die-hard vegan, where can I find a master that would fit with my basic beliefs? P.S. Please don't preach that my attitude to master-student relationship is already wrong if I want to study with a vegetarian master.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by Grigoris »

spaces wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:19 pm So if I am an absolute die-hard vegan, where can I find a master that would fit with my basic beliefs? P.S. Please don't preach that my attitude to master-student relationship is already wrong if I want to study with a vegetarian master.
Your attitude to Buddhism is wrong, if you want to tailor your Buddhist practice to fit your ego.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by Malcolm »

spaces wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:19 pm So if I am an absolute die-hard vegan, where can I find a master that would fit with my basic beliefs? P.S. Please don't preach that my attitude to master-student relationship is already wrong if I want to study with a vegetarian master.
Chinese Buddhism. Some of the Larung Gar Khenpos are very strict vegans. But the Buddha did not teach diet as a path of liberation.

Perhaps you would be better off studying with the Jains.
User avatar
heart
Posts: 6286
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:55 pm

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by heart »

spaces wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:19 pm So if I am an absolute die-hard vegan, where can I find a master that would fit with my basic beliefs? P.S. Please don't preach that my attitude to master-student relationship is already wrong if I want to study with a vegetarian master.
I want to study with a vegetarian master, I want to study with a woman, I want to study with an old master, I want to study with a a gay master. All this is understandable, but it is pretty impossible to make the logistics work. Being westerners we already have a lot of problem finding and spending time with our masters. Also neither being vegetarian, woman, old or gay are the correct qualifications for a master. Patrul Rinpoche (1808–1887) was vegetarian but one of his main masters, Do Khyentse, was living as a meat eating bandit. So, go figure.

Unfortunately I don't know any Dzogchen vegetarian master right now.

/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
mutsuk
Posts: 834
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 7:35 pm

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by mutsuk »

heart wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:12 pm Unfortunately I don't know any Dzogchen vegetarian master right now.
Lopon Tenzin Namdak has been vegetarian for 15 years or so and he teaches Dzogchen.

To come back to Shardza, his position is interesting: he would eat meat but only from animals who accidentally died (falling from a cliff, dying of cold, etc.) but not from an animal killed for him. He exhorted monks in the monasteries he taught to do the same. However, apparently, at the end of his life, he was completely vegetarian. He even forbade tea and only drank an infusion of rhododendron. He forbade any use of alcool and for rituals or tsok he would use "real" amrita (not alcool).
User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 4606
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by kalden yungdrung »

mutsuk wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:21 pm
kalden yungdrung wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:16 am Menri Monastery is vegetarian
We hosted Menri Ponlob for several retreats here and he ate meet, same thing for his attendants..
whereas Triten Norbutse in Nepal are meat eaters.
True for some monks, but not for all. I know many of them who are strict vegetarians.
So H.E. the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche eats regular meat.
He used to, this has not been the case for the past ten or fifteen years.

In Bön, vegetarianism has been promoted by numerous masters. Most recently it was heavily stressed by Shardza Rinpoche and many of his disciples. There is however no rules established as canonical on this subject in Bon (but this is not the opinion of Shardza himself).
Tashi delek M,

Agree in Bön there are vegetarians and non vegetarians.

Remarkable that the late Gyalwa H.H. the 33th Menri Trizin Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche was a vegetarian and a vegetarian diet was in his days the rule at Menri Monastery. Exceptions would be there like your example of H.E. the Menri Ponlop Rinpoche. ( that is new for me). At my visit at Menri Monastery / India, the dinner was without meat.

That Lopon La is vegetarian at the moment is also new to me.

Indeed in Bön it is a free choice to be vegetarian or not.
The best meditation is no meditation
User avatar
kalden yungdrung
Posts: 4606
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 10:40 pm

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by kalden yungdrung »

spaces wrote: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:19 pm So if I am an absolute die-hard vegan, where can I find a master that would fit with my basic beliefs? P.S. Please don't preach that my attitude to master-student relationship is already wrong if I want to study with a vegetarian master.
Tashi delek S,

Its ok to be a vegetarian, if you have a good basic health.

Guess to be vegetarian is not so ok for weak persons like my Acupuncture Master told once.
Seen as medicine , meat eating can be healthy. (for weak persons)

If you prefer to study with a vegetarian Master that would be ok, but the level of the Master´s realization, is never diminished by eating death bodies or the non eating of it.

This because there are many Dzogchen masters who eat meat and who don´t.

So if i would be a vegetarian and have as guest, a Dzogchen Master who eats meat, then i would cook for him a meat dinner, but i guess he would have no objections to eat a vegetarian dish.

- But i have here a question, what are your basic beliefs ?
The best meditation is no meditation
spaces
Posts: 19
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:00 am

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by spaces »

Tashi delek.

Answering you:

To Mr. Grigoris:
I want to tailor my Buddhist practice to fit my beliefs. If everything with a label "Buddhism" should be acceptable by a student, then Buddhism would become meaningless (as everything could and would soon after become "Buddhism").

To Mr. Malcom:
That Buddha did not teach diet as a path of liberation is highly debatable. At least in "Food for Bodhisattvas" by Shakbar you can many citations, even by (that is academically debatable) Buddha Shakyamuni. E.g. Lankavatara Sutra (version with additional chapter). Even in Hinayana texts he obviously mentions that food should be pure in three ways. So, although is definitely not vegetarianism, he DID in fact teach some diet restriction and understood food restrictions as part of the path.

To Mr. heart:

There are vegetarian Dzogchen masters, unfortunately most of them live in countries unaccessible to me. To want to study with this or that master is actually foundation of vajrayana - we want to study with a root master we have special karmic connection with, many are there accounts of teachers sending their students to another teachers because of that karmic link. So, that is an important matter even in Vajrayana. Now this initiative can and often comes from a student as well - there is no reason to deny that a particular student may have desire to study with vegetarian master because of his karma and it could, at least theoretically, be of beneficial foundation.

To Mr. Mutsuk and Mr. kalden yungdrung:

How can I find Tenzin Lopon Namdak? Does he teach westerners? Simply, what should I do if want to become his student? I read his books. His style of teaching impressed me immensely. But he is old. Of course, we all don't know how long we will live, but If it's still possible to study under him, I am willing to do anything it takes.
User avatar
treehuggingoctopus
Posts: 2507
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:26 pm
Location: EU

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by treehuggingoctopus »

spaces wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:46 amHow can I find Tenzin Lopon Namdak? Does he teach westerners? Simply, what should I do if want to become his student? I read his books. His style of teaching impressed me immensely. But he is old. Of course, we all don't know how long we will live, but If it's still possible to study under him, I am willing to do anything it takes.
I gave you a link in the Bonpo tantraless Dzogchen teaching thread.
Générosité de l’invisible.
Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.

Edmond Jabès
User avatar
Johnny Dangerous
Global Moderator
Posts: 17089
Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:58 pm
Location: Olympia WA
Contact:

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

spaces wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:46 am Tashi delek.

Answering you:

To Mr. Grigoris:
I want to tailor my Buddhist practice to fit my beliefs. If everything with a label "Buddhism" should be acceptable by a student, then Buddhism would become meaningless (as everything could and would soon after become "Buddhism").
Be a better idea to get over your strongly held beliefs, at least a little, at least enough that you are not trying to use your own opinions like a flag to catch a master with, I don't see that ending well at all.
To Mr. Malcom:
That Buddha did not teach diet as a path of liberation is highly debatable. At least in "Food for Bodhisattvas" by Shakbar you can many citations, even by (that is academically debatable) Buddha Shakyamuni. E.g. Lankavatara Sutra (version with additional chapter). Even in Hinayana texts he obviously mentions that food should be pure in three ways. So, although is definitely not vegetarianism, he DID in fact teach some diet restriction and understood food restrictions as part of the path.
Some sutras which teach vegetariansim are considered definite by some sects, there is no real Dharma-based argument for vegetarianism beyond that. this is precisely why it always turns to more general discussions of consumer ethics etc.There is actually just not that much there compared to other traditions which -do- involve such tings in greater amounts, e.g Jainism.

There are vegetarian Dzogchen masters, unfortunately most of them live in countries unaccessible to me. To want to study with this or that master is actually foundation of vajrayana - we want to study with a root master we have special karmic connection with, many are there accounts of teachers sending their students to another teachers because of that karmic link. So, that is an important matter even in Vajrayana. Now this initiative can and often comes from a student as well - there is no reason to deny that a particular student may have desire to study with vegetarian master because of his karma and it could, at least theoretically, be of beneficial foundation.
Sharing the same surface beliefs with someone is not necessarily a deep karmic connection, especially when it's just some often loudly proclaimed ideology. People can hold the same "beliefs" and be utterly at odds. Mostly because "beliefs" in the way they normally exist are often bullshit, and are a way of people trying to maintain stability where in fact there is none. Look at how often strongly held beliefs change, especially over a whole lifespan.

Particularly if one wants to study Dzogchen, we are trying to go beyond beliefs, systems, ideology altogether. While certainly we will still need aspects of these things, i'm not sure grasping onto the idea that you need a master who shares your pre existing beliefs is a good approach, ymmv. That would be in true in general, how much more so for Dzogchen.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

-Khunu Lama
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?

Post by Grigoris »

spaces wrote: Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:46 am Tashi delek.

Answering you:

To Mr. Grigoris:
I want to tailor my Buddhist practice to fit my beliefs. If everything with a label "Buddhism" should be acceptable by a student, then Buddhism would become meaningless (as everything could and would soon after become "Buddhism").
You have it the wrong way around my friend: Buddhism becomes meaningless if it is forced to fit onto our existing beliefs.

Buddhism is not about satisfying our (self-centred) perceived wants and needs.

To be clear: I am vegetarian, but I would consider it ridiculous to limit myself to vegetarian teachers just because I currently happen to believe that vegetarianism is the correct dietary choice for me.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Post Reply

Return to “Bön”