Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Is there a vow to be vegetarian for Bonpos? Are such prominent teachers like Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche vegetarian? How it compares to Buddhism?
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
I don't think it's super-common, but I don't really know. But I do know that an influential Bonpo lama from the late 1800s called Shardza Tashi Gyeltsen was a vegetarian. I think he had been a Buddhist but converted, part of the Rime. It's in this book:
https://www.amazon.com/Gathering-Brilli ... lly+gayley
"I have made a heap of all that I have met"- Svetonious
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
I've read somewhere that they have a vow of vegetarianism (but forgot the source). But I read it only once, and thus I don't know if it's true. But if it is, then it would interesting feature of Bon tradition.
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Mutsuk said on Vajracakra that Bonpos had a vow of vegetarianism IIRC.
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Here's a 2013 teaching from Tenzin Wangyal, a prominent Bon teacher in the US. At the end of the video it is noted that he became vegetarian five years previously, which implies being vegetarian is not required in Bon.
Kalden Yungdrung is a Bonpo posting on this site who might have more complete info.
Kalden Yungdrung is a Bonpo posting on this site who might have more complete info.
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
So maybe they (kalden yunrung) will post more definitive answer to that someday.
Yeah, that video implies that they are not and it's just a private decision. E.g. in this article:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... he-bonpos/
there is a mention that:
"Bon monks, unlike their Buddhist counterparts, are expected to be vegetarian."
Yeah, that video implies that they are not and it's just a private decision. E.g. in this article:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... he-bonpos/
there is a mention that:
"Bon monks, unlike their Buddhist counterparts, are expected to be vegetarian."
Last edited by Grigoris on Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Neutral pronoun added
Reason: Neutral pronoun added
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
I forgot to mention - maybe this vow of vegetarianism is one the bonpos vow affecting only monks (and AFAIK Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche isn't a monk).
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Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Tashi delek,spaces wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 4:41 am So maybe they (kalden yunrung) will post more definitive answer to that someday.
Yeah, that video implies that they are not and it's just a private decision. E.g. in this article:
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/blo ... he-bonpos/
there is a mention that:
"Bon monks, unlike their Buddhist counterparts, are expected to be vegetarian."
Well about vegetarism in Bön i can tell the following.
Menri Monastery is vegetarian whereas Triten Norbutse in Nepal are meat eaters. So H.E. the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche eats regular meat.
We see that with both diets one can obtain enlightenment. its a very personal case in Bön to be a vegetarian or not.
Mutsuk Marro
KY
Last edited by Grigoris on Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Meta-discussion removed
Reason: Meta-discussion removed
The best meditation is no meditation
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
We hosted Menri Ponlob for several retreats here and he ate meet, same thing for his attendants..
True for some monks, but not for all. I know many of them who are strict vegetarians.whereas Triten Norbutse in Nepal are meat eaters.
He used to, this has not been the case for the past ten or fifteen years.So H.E. the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche eats regular meat.
In Bön, vegetarianism has been promoted by numerous masters. Most recently it was heavily stressed by Shardza Rinpoche and many of his disciples. There is however no rules established as canonical on this subject in Bon (but this is not the opinion of Shardza himself).
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
So if I am an absolute die-hard vegan, where can I find a master that would fit with my basic beliefs? P.S. Please don't preach that my attitude to master-student relationship is already wrong if I want to study with a vegetarian master.
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Your attitude to Buddhism is wrong, if you want to tailor your Buddhist practice to fit your ego.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Chinese Buddhism. Some of the Larung Gar Khenpos are very strict vegans. But the Buddha did not teach diet as a path of liberation.
Perhaps you would be better off studying with the Jains.
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
I want to study with a vegetarian master, I want to study with a woman, I want to study with an old master, I want to study with a a gay master. All this is understandable, but it is pretty impossible to make the logistics work. Being westerners we already have a lot of problem finding and spending time with our masters. Also neither being vegetarian, woman, old or gay are the correct qualifications for a master. Patrul Rinpoche (1808–1887) was vegetarian but one of his main masters, Do Khyentse, was living as a meat eating bandit. So, go figure.
Unfortunately I don't know any Dzogchen vegetarian master right now.
/magnus
"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
~Kurt Vonnegut
"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Lopon Tenzin Namdak has been vegetarian for 15 years or so and he teaches Dzogchen.
To come back to Shardza, his position is interesting: he would eat meat but only from animals who accidentally died (falling from a cliff, dying of cold, etc.) but not from an animal killed for him. He exhorted monks in the monasteries he taught to do the same. However, apparently, at the end of his life, he was completely vegetarian. He even forbade tea and only drank an infusion of rhododendron. He forbade any use of alcool and for rituals or tsok he would use "real" amrita (not alcool).
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Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Tashi delek M,mutsuk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:21 pmWe hosted Menri Ponlob for several retreats here and he ate meet, same thing for his attendants..
True for some monks, but not for all. I know many of them who are strict vegetarians.whereas Triten Norbutse in Nepal are meat eaters.
He used to, this has not been the case for the past ten or fifteen years.So H.E. the Bön Yongdzin Rinpoche eats regular meat.
In Bön, vegetarianism has been promoted by numerous masters. Most recently it was heavily stressed by Shardza Rinpoche and many of his disciples. There is however no rules established as canonical on this subject in Bon (but this is not the opinion of Shardza himself).
Agree in Bön there are vegetarians and non vegetarians.
Remarkable that the late Gyalwa H.H. the 33th Menri Trizin Lungtok Tenpai Nyima Rinpoche was a vegetarian and a vegetarian diet was in his days the rule at Menri Monastery. Exceptions would be there like your example of H.E. the Menri Ponlop Rinpoche. ( that is new for me). At my visit at Menri Monastery / India, the dinner was without meat.
That Lopon La is vegetarian at the moment is also new to me.
Indeed in Bön it is a free choice to be vegetarian or not.
The best meditation is no meditation
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Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Tashi delek S,
Its ok to be a vegetarian, if you have a good basic health.
Guess to be vegetarian is not so ok for weak persons like my Acupuncture Master told once.
Seen as medicine , meat eating can be healthy. (for weak persons)
If you prefer to study with a vegetarian Master that would be ok, but the level of the Master´s realization, is never diminished by eating death bodies or the non eating of it.
This because there are many Dzogchen masters who eat meat and who don´t.
So if i would be a vegetarian and have as guest, a Dzogchen Master who eats meat, then i would cook for him a meat dinner, but i guess he would have no objections to eat a vegetarian dish.
- But i have here a question, what are your basic beliefs ?
The best meditation is no meditation
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Tashi delek.
Answering you:
To Mr. Grigoris:
I want to tailor my Buddhist practice to fit my beliefs. If everything with a label "Buddhism" should be acceptable by a student, then Buddhism would become meaningless (as everything could and would soon after become "Buddhism").
To Mr. Malcom:
That Buddha did not teach diet as a path of liberation is highly debatable. At least in "Food for Bodhisattvas" by Shakbar you can many citations, even by (that is academically debatable) Buddha Shakyamuni. E.g. Lankavatara Sutra (version with additional chapter). Even in Hinayana texts he obviously mentions that food should be pure in three ways. So, although is definitely not vegetarianism, he DID in fact teach some diet restriction and understood food restrictions as part of the path.
To Mr. heart:
There are vegetarian Dzogchen masters, unfortunately most of them live in countries unaccessible to me. To want to study with this or that master is actually foundation of vajrayana - we want to study with a root master we have special karmic connection with, many are there accounts of teachers sending their students to another teachers because of that karmic link. So, that is an important matter even in Vajrayana. Now this initiative can and often comes from a student as well - there is no reason to deny that a particular student may have desire to study with vegetarian master because of his karma and it could, at least theoretically, be of beneficial foundation.
To Mr. Mutsuk and Mr. kalden yungdrung:
How can I find Tenzin Lopon Namdak? Does he teach westerners? Simply, what should I do if want to become his student? I read his books. His style of teaching impressed me immensely. But he is old. Of course, we all don't know how long we will live, but If it's still possible to study under him, I am willing to do anything it takes.
Answering you:
To Mr. Grigoris:
I want to tailor my Buddhist practice to fit my beliefs. If everything with a label "Buddhism" should be acceptable by a student, then Buddhism would become meaningless (as everything could and would soon after become "Buddhism").
To Mr. Malcom:
That Buddha did not teach diet as a path of liberation is highly debatable. At least in "Food for Bodhisattvas" by Shakbar you can many citations, even by (that is academically debatable) Buddha Shakyamuni. E.g. Lankavatara Sutra (version with additional chapter). Even in Hinayana texts he obviously mentions that food should be pure in three ways. So, although is definitely not vegetarianism, he DID in fact teach some diet restriction and understood food restrictions as part of the path.
To Mr. heart:
There are vegetarian Dzogchen masters, unfortunately most of them live in countries unaccessible to me. To want to study with this or that master is actually foundation of vajrayana - we want to study with a root master we have special karmic connection with, many are there accounts of teachers sending their students to another teachers because of that karmic link. So, that is an important matter even in Vajrayana. Now this initiative can and often comes from a student as well - there is no reason to deny that a particular student may have desire to study with vegetarian master because of his karma and it could, at least theoretically, be of beneficial foundation.
To Mr. Mutsuk and Mr. kalden yungdrung:
How can I find Tenzin Lopon Namdak? Does he teach westerners? Simply, what should I do if want to become his student? I read his books. His style of teaching impressed me immensely. But he is old. Of course, we all don't know how long we will live, but If it's still possible to study under him, I am willing to do anything it takes.
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Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
I gave you a link in the Bonpo tantraless Dzogchen teaching thread.spaces wrote: ↑Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:46 amHow can I find Tenzin Lopon Namdak? Does he teach westerners? Simply, what should I do if want to become his student? I read his books. His style of teaching impressed me immensely. But he is old. Of course, we all don't know how long we will live, but If it's still possible to study under him, I am willing to do anything it takes.
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Le critère est l’hospitalité.
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Notre gratitude est infinie.
Le critère est l’hospitalité.
Edmond Jabès
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Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
Be a better idea to get over your strongly held beliefs, at least a little, at least enough that you are not trying to use your own opinions like a flag to catch a master with, I don't see that ending well at all.spaces wrote: ↑Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:46 am Tashi delek.
Answering you:
To Mr. Grigoris:
I want to tailor my Buddhist practice to fit my beliefs. If everything with a label "Buddhism" should be acceptable by a student, then Buddhism would become meaningless (as everything could and would soon after become "Buddhism").
Some sutras which teach vegetariansim are considered definite by some sects, there is no real Dharma-based argument for vegetarianism beyond that. this is precisely why it always turns to more general discussions of consumer ethics etc.There is actually just not that much there compared to other traditions which -do- involve such tings in greater amounts, e.g Jainism.To Mr. Malcom:
That Buddha did not teach diet as a path of liberation is highly debatable. At least in "Food for Bodhisattvas" by Shakbar you can many citations, even by (that is academically debatable) Buddha Shakyamuni. E.g. Lankavatara Sutra (version with additional chapter). Even in Hinayana texts he obviously mentions that food should be pure in three ways. So, although is definitely not vegetarianism, he DID in fact teach some diet restriction and understood food restrictions as part of the path.
Sharing the same surface beliefs with someone is not necessarily a deep karmic connection, especially when it's just some often loudly proclaimed ideology. People can hold the same "beliefs" and be utterly at odds. Mostly because "beliefs" in the way they normally exist are often bullshit, and are a way of people trying to maintain stability where in fact there is none. Look at how often strongly held beliefs change, especially over a whole lifespan.
There are vegetarian Dzogchen masters, unfortunately most of them live in countries unaccessible to me. To want to study with this or that master is actually foundation of vajrayana - we want to study with a root master we have special karmic connection with, many are there accounts of teachers sending their students to another teachers because of that karmic link. So, that is an important matter even in Vajrayana. Now this initiative can and often comes from a student as well - there is no reason to deny that a particular student may have desire to study with vegetarian master because of his karma and it could, at least theoretically, be of beneficial foundation.
Particularly if one wants to study Dzogchen, we are trying to go beyond beliefs, systems, ideology altogether. While certainly we will still need aspects of these things, i'm not sure grasping onto the idea that you need a master who shares your pre existing beliefs is a good approach, ymmv. That would be in true in general, how much more so for Dzogchen.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared
-Khunu Lama
Re: Are Bonpos vegetarian?
You have it the wrong way around my friend: Buddhism becomes meaningless if it is forced to fit onto our existing beliefs.spaces wrote: ↑Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:46 am Tashi delek.
Answering you:
To Mr. Grigoris:
I want to tailor my Buddhist practice to fit my beliefs. If everything with a label "Buddhism" should be acceptable by a student, then Buddhism would become meaningless (as everything could and would soon after become "Buddhism").
Buddhism is not about satisfying our (self-centred) perceived wants and needs.
To be clear: I am vegetarian, but I would consider it ridiculous to limit myself to vegetarian teachers just because I currently happen to believe that vegetarianism is the correct dietary choice for me.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde