My name is Bodhi.
I live in North Western North Carolina and have been studying the Dharma for about 4 years. I've learned a lot in that time and I have shared my experience with others hoping that they find some measure of peace in the Dharma, just as I have. I don't try to teach anyone anything because I know that I don't know enough to be able to teach the Dharma in a helpful way. Instead, I try to show people when I am asked, how the Dharma has helped me in my life and I tell them about the authors whose books I've read, etc.
In a recent conversation about Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings, I referenced a quote of his to someone close to me. The quote I referenced was about meditation. It reads "Meditation is not to get out of society, to escape from society, but to prepare for a reentry into society”. We talked more about Thay and I told my friend that he'd been a monk since he was 16.
My friend then asked me, "How can someone who has spent their whole life in a monastery, cloistered away from the real world, offer any advice on how to live in the real world, when they don't have bills to pay, and they don't get stuck in traffic or have a boss that talks down to them, and they don't deal with any of the things that people in the real world have to deal with on a daily basis?"
I was unable to answer them. I've meditated on the question and thought about it a lot since we spoke but I still don't know how to answer them. I believe it is because I myself don't understand how a monk or a nun who does not live and work in modern society the way my friend and I do, can offer advice on how to apply the Dharma to it.
I hope that no one will find this question to be disrespectful, it is not intended to be. I'm genuinely looking for help so I can better understand this, and perhaps even answer my friend. Thank you and Namaste.
Monastic Advice for Modern Society
Re: Monastic Advice for Modern Society
Samsara is samsara no matter where you. Monasteries also have bills to pay, monks get stuck in traffic, and have pushy bosses too, etc. Your friend has a misunderstanding of monastic life.BodhiPrajna wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:16 pm
My friend then asked me, "How can someone who has spent their whole life in a monastery, cloistered away from the real world, offer any advice on how to live in the real world, when they don't have bills to pay, and they don't get stuck in traffic or have a boss that talks down to them, and they don't deal with any of the things that people in the real world have to deal with on a daily basis?"
Re: Monastic Advice for Modern Society
I asked roshi a question along those lines; from the "entering the marketplace" ox-herding perspective. He suggested that monastics have to live with people, some whom they get along with some not. They can still trip and spill what they are carrying, stub their toes, time is obligated in various ways- inconvenience, at least, still presents itself. Ethical conduct still applies. Physical, emotional, physical health still has to be managed. In these ways, the monastic provides an example, how skillfully can be a measure of their practice.
Re: Monastic Advice for Modern Society
This. Monks have many of the same concerns lay people have. They are just framed a little different. No one escapes the fire of samsara.Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:19 pmSamsara is samsara no matter where you. Monasteries also have bills to pay, monks get stuck in traffic, and have pushy bosses too, etc. Your friend has a misunderstanding of monastic life.BodhiPrajna wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:16 pm
My friend then asked me, "How can someone who has spent their whole life in a monastery, cloistered away from the real world, offer any advice on how to live in the real world, when they don't have bills to pay, and they don't get stuck in traffic or have a boss that talks down to them, and they don't deal with any of the things that people in the real world have to deal with on a daily basis?"
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.
New Haven Zen Center
Re: Monastic Advice for Modern Society
Plus they have added anxiety of modeling awakening, whether they are or not.KeithA wrote: ↑Wed Jan 26, 2022 3:01 amThis. Monks have many of the same concerns lay people have. They are just framed a little different. No one escapes the fire of samsara.Malcolm wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:19 pmSamsara is samsara no matter where you. Monasteries also have bills to pay, monks get stuck in traffic, and have pushy bosses too, etc. Your friend has a misunderstanding of monastic life.BodhiPrajna wrote: ↑Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:16 pm
My friend then asked me, "How can someone who has spent their whole life in a monastery, cloistered away from the real world, offer any advice on how to live in the real world, when they don't have bills to pay, and they don't get stuck in traffic or have a boss that talks down to them, and they don't deal with any of the things that people in the real world have to deal with on a daily basis?"
Re: Monastic Advice for Modern Society
"How can someone who has spent their whole life in a monastery, cloistered away from the real world, offer any advice on how to live in the real world, when they don't have bills to pay, and they don't get stuck in traffic or have a boss that talks down to them, and they don't deal with any of the things that people in the real world have to deal with on a daily basis?"
That's the "Real World" eh?
The circus ride of modernity that keeps you running in circles, never looking too deeply at life, your own mind, or your emotions. That is not the real world, it's a sham. An illusion meant to deceive you into believing it's the 'real world'. That stuff is a bunch of activities, obsessions, games. It's an addiction being passed off as life. Spend your life earning money so that you can be happy once you have saved enough money, and material things -- and yet no amount of collecting money, or saving up items will ever make you happy.
I imagine most Buddhists will eventually see the pointlessness of such a system.
Taking a deep look inside, realizing just how frightening ignorant we are about the realities of our existence and just how ignorant we are about the nature of our existence, and even how ignorant we are about our own self natures (Our minds). This exploration is the closest anyone can possibly hope to come to 'real life'.
Sure, we still have to eat, and so we still have to engage with society. Buddhism teaches a way to do this, while reducing your suffering. While showing you what is important within that maelstrom of suffering, so that you don't get lost in it.
As others have said, everyone will still have to deal with these things, in differing ways. Most monks do not live entirely secluded lives either.
What Buddhism teaches applies just as much to that circus ride humanity finds itself on, as it does to someone who spends their life in solitude.
Suffering starts in the mind, by understanding the nature of that mind, you can deal with suffering. The direct causes of that suffering are irrelevant. Whether it's your boss yelling at you for being late because you got stuck in traffic, or you have to make a trek down a snowy mountain to get groceries for a watt of monks. The same internal processes still apply. Those internal processes can be worked with, and understood.
That's the "Real World" eh?
The circus ride of modernity that keeps you running in circles, never looking too deeply at life, your own mind, or your emotions. That is not the real world, it's a sham. An illusion meant to deceive you into believing it's the 'real world'. That stuff is a bunch of activities, obsessions, games. It's an addiction being passed off as life. Spend your life earning money so that you can be happy once you have saved enough money, and material things -- and yet no amount of collecting money, or saving up items will ever make you happy.
I imagine most Buddhists will eventually see the pointlessness of such a system.
Taking a deep look inside, realizing just how frightening ignorant we are about the realities of our existence and just how ignorant we are about the nature of our existence, and even how ignorant we are about our own self natures (Our minds). This exploration is the closest anyone can possibly hope to come to 'real life'.
Sure, we still have to eat, and so we still have to engage with society. Buddhism teaches a way to do this, while reducing your suffering. While showing you what is important within that maelstrom of suffering, so that you don't get lost in it.
As others have said, everyone will still have to deal with these things, in differing ways. Most monks do not live entirely secluded lives either.
What Buddhism teaches applies just as much to that circus ride humanity finds itself on, as it does to someone who spends their life in solitude.
Suffering starts in the mind, by understanding the nature of that mind, you can deal with suffering. The direct causes of that suffering are irrelevant. Whether it's your boss yelling at you for being late because you got stuck in traffic, or you have to make a trek down a snowy mountain to get groceries for a watt of monks. The same internal processes still apply. Those internal processes can be worked with, and understood.
Thus shall ye think of all this fleeting world:
A star at dawn, a bubble in a stream;
A flash of lightning in a summer cloud,
A flickering lamp, a phantom, and a dream.