Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
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TannersHatch
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Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by TannersHatch »

Hello

I wonder if I could get some advice? I was thinking of making a channel bringing practical advise on meditation and introductory mind training and also for those inclined in later videos to introduce the Dharma as a means to a happier mind.
My aim is to bring beneficiary practices such as resting awareness, mindfulness in daily activity, releasing anxiety, experiencing joy in meditation etc I would like to do this in an effort to benefit those who are not inclined toward Buddhism as a path and also to offer a westernised introduction to Buddhist ideas. Styled in such a way as to be more engaging and relatable to the Non-Buddhist or layman in the West.
Problem is, how do I do that while maintaining the respect and reverence for the subject it deserves? I am worried that an overly animated, potentially irreverent presentation of these ideas might offend other Buddhists. Most of the videos I watch approach Buddhism with an air of calm which although absolutely correct might be difficult for some to relate to. Seeing wisdom instead as 'religion' in their minds and being unwilling or unable to engage in the message and meaning.

How do you think such an idea should be approached properly?
I would I think send videos to well established Buddhist perhaps for approval first? That might be an idea?
narhwal90
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by narhwal90 »

The example of your changed behavior will be a far more profound demonstration of Buddhism than one more video on the topic.
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FiveSkandhas
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by FiveSkandhas »

It is my sincere belief that Buddhism should be practiced, insofar as is possible, in the context of an ancient traditional lineage, preferably under the guidance of a legitimate teacher or guru. The practitioner should take refuge in the triple gem and vows as appropriate to his or her status and tradition. The practitioner should cultivate traditional morality grounded in the Vows, should study the great Sutras and other texts of his or her chosen tradition, and should practice in accordance with with traditional methods. Although it is not practical for most, I also believe that at least some time practicing in Asia at a traditional temple is highly beneficial.

I deeply believe that all efforts to "modernize" Buddhism and to trade robes for business suits, as it were, cheapen the Stainless Dharma and give rise to a tinhorn new-age vacuity that is not generally beneficial.

The purpose of Buddhism is not to relax you, or to make you more comfortable in samsara. It is not to improve your lifestyle or concentration, or to give you the psycho-spiritural equivalent of Xanax. The purpose of Buddhism is to attain liberation for the sake of all sentient beings.

Thus I cannot personally endorse your project, or others that are similar.

If I sound cold or rude I apologize, but I believe the watering-down of Buddhism is a grave problem for the religion in our time, and one I oppose strongly. Not that your aims aren't good, or that you are a bad person. Just that I believe the very premises that underlying your project are profoundly and even tragically flawed.

I encourage you to follow a traditional Buddhist path under a valid teacher of a classical lineage.

My best wishes for your liberation from suffering.
"One should cultivate contemplation in one’s foibles. The foibles are like fish, and contemplation is like fishing hooks. If there are no fish, then the fishing hooks have no use. The bigger the fish is, the better the result we will get. As long as the fishing hooks keep at it, all foibles will eventually be contained and controlled at will." -Zhiyi

"Just be kind." -Atisha
TannersHatch
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by TannersHatch »

FiveSkandhas wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 4:04 pm . Just that I believe the very premises that underlying your project are profoundly and even tragically flawed.

I encourage you to follow a traditional Buddhist path under a valid teacher of a classical lineage.

My best wishes for your liberation from suffering.
I see the wisdom in your advice. Thank you. It's perhaps an ill conceived idea.
TannersHatch
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by TannersHatch »

narhwal90 wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 3:34 pm The example of your changed behavior will be a far more profound demonstration of Buddhism than one more video on the topic.
Your right of course. I shall work on my patience and conceit and learn to run before I walk so to speak. Thank you
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Kim O'Hara
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by Kim O'Hara »

TannersHatch wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:44 pm Hello

I wonder if I could get some advice? I was thinking of making a channel bringing practical advise on meditation and introductory mind training and also for those inclined in later videos to introduce the Dharma as a means to a happier mind.
My aim is to bring beneficiary practices such as resting awareness, mindfulness in daily activity, releasing anxiety, experiencing joy in meditation etc I would like to do this in an effort to benefit those who are not inclined toward Buddhism as a path and also to offer a westernised introduction to Buddhist ideas. Styled in such a way as to be more engaging and relatable to the Non-Buddhist or layman in the West.
Problem is, how do I do that while maintaining the respect and reverence for the subject it deserves? I am worried that an overly animated, potentially irreverent presentation of these ideas might offend other Buddhists. Most of the videos I watch approach Buddhism with an air of calm which although absolutely correct might be difficult for some to relate to. Seeing wisdom instead as 'religion' in their minds and being unwilling or unable to engage in the message and meaning.

How do you think such an idea should be approached properly?
I would I think send videos to well established Buddhist perhaps for approval first? That might be an idea?
I think you're right to hold off for a while. :smile:

In the meantime, you could explore others' efforts in this direction. A 'westernised intro to Buddhist ideas' is not a new idea at all and I'm sure you could learn a lot for your own benefit while looking into what has already been done.
This group is one approach - https://www.dharmapunxnyc.com/
Jon Kabat-Zinn is another huge influence - basically secularised Buddhism in therapeutic settings - so look him up.

:namaste:
Kim
cjdevries
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by cjdevries »

TannersHatch wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:44 pm Hello

I wonder if I could get some advice? I was thinking of making a channel bringing practical advise on meditation and introductory mind training and also for those inclined in later videos to introduce the Dharma as a means to a happier mind.
My aim is to bring beneficiary practices such as resting awareness, mindfulness in daily activity, releasing anxiety, experiencing joy in meditation etc I would like to do this in an effort to benefit those who are not inclined toward Buddhism as a path and also to offer a westernised introduction to Buddhist ideas. Styled in such a way as to be more engaging and relatable to the Non-Buddhist or layman in the West.
Problem is, how do I do that while maintaining the respect and reverence for the subject it deserves? I am worried that an overly animated, potentially irreverent presentation of these ideas might offend other Buddhists. Most of the videos I watch approach Buddhism with an air of calm which although absolutely correct might be difficult for some to relate to. Seeing wisdom instead as 'religion' in their minds and being unwilling or unable to engage in the message and meaning.

How do you think such an idea should be approached properly?
I would I think send videos to well established Buddhist perhaps for approval first? That might be an idea?
I think it's a good concept and you should pursue it- getting input or approval from a reliable Buddhist source like you talked about is a good start IMO. The I Ching says that when you receive agreement or approval from all sides then a venture is likely to go well. I think that people are always looking for sources for this kind of information, especially in a non-religious atmosphere. It's probably best to get a lot of input first, and listen to other people's suggestions and insights. We can learn a lot from others around us, sometimes even from sources that we might traditionally discount. One thing I've learned recently is to go back to the source or the base of what our human needs are; when I think about it, as humans we need: sources for self expression, sources for inner spiritual nourishment like the site you are considering, meaningful work that gives us the opportunity to give back to others, community to ground us and to give us a place to exchange ideas and build relationships, ceremony or ritual that connects us to the rhythms of life and nature- which helps to soften our sometimes hardened hearts. (They say that anytime someone has a hardened heart to engage that person in a ceremony involving dancing or singing or community prayer, it can rejuvenate the spirit and rekindle the fire of being alive) I've been trying to consider these human needs when I pursue anything. If we go back to the essentials of what is needed and we always keep these human needs in mind and honor them as well as put them into practice, then we can help to bring each other back into balance.
Last edited by cjdevries on Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Johnny Dangerous
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by Johnny Dangerous »

Really qualified (and some less so, surely) people have already been doing this for many years.

Better to just focus on your own practice, donate time at your center, etc.

So there’s the basic ethical question- are you even qualified or educated enough to do this. Then there’s also the fact that ‘simplified’, introductory, etc. Buddhist teachings is already a saturated market.

No offense, it sounds like you are very new to Buddhism generally to be unaware of this. As such maybe it’d be good to just slow down.
Meditate upon Bodhicitta when afflicted by disease

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when sad

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when suffering occurs

Meditate upon Bodhicitta when you are scared

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SilenceMonkey
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by SilenceMonkey »

Mingyur Rinpoche and Tsoknyi Rinpoche are quite compatible with secular minded folks. They both have youtube channels and online courses. Thich Nhat Hanh has some great books as well.
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Hazel
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by Hazel »

Giving advice is dangerous for both the giver and receiver.
Happy Pride month to my queer dharma siblings!

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Berry
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by Berry »

Johnny Dangerous wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:27 am Really qualified (and some less so, surely) people have already been doing this for many years.

Better to just focus on your own practice, donate time at your center, etc.

So there’s the basic ethical question- are you even qualified or educated enough to do this. Then there’s also the fact that ‘simplified’, introductory, etc. Buddhist teachings is already a saturated market.

No offense, it sounds like you are very new to Buddhism generally to be unaware of this. As such maybe it’d be good to just slow down.
:good: Well said.
Leave the polluted water of conceptual thoughts in its natural clarity. Without affirming or denying appearances, leave them as they are. When there is neither acceptance nor rejection, mind is liberated into mahāmudra.

~ Tilopa
TannersHatch
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by TannersHatch »

Kim O'Hara wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:43 am I think you're right to hold off for a while. :smile:

In the meantime, you could explore others' efforts in this direction. A 'westernised intro to Buddhist ideas' is not a new idea at all and I'm sure you could learn a lot for your own benefit while looking into what has already been done.
This group is one approach - https://www.dharmapunxnyc.com/
Jon Kabat-Zinn is another huge influence - basically secularised Buddhism in therapeutic settings - so look him up.

:namaste:
Kim
Thanks 👍 really like what there doing on dharmapunxnyc
Gonna listen to some podcasts
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nyonchung
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by nyonchung »

Is secularised Buddhism something like christianity without Jesus, or wine without alcohol, or a car without wheels?
I wonder sometimes ... :sage:
"Me and the sky don't hold views - Me and the river have no fixed practice
Me and the madman don't have a guide- Me and the rainbow have no experiences
Me, the sun and the moon have no certitudes - Me and the jewel bear no fruit" - Dampa Sanggyé as quoted by Domar Mingyur Dorjé (born 1675)
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KeithA
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by KeithA »

TannersHatch wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:44 pm Hello

I wonder if I could get some advice? I was thinking of making a channel bringing practical advise on meditation and introductory mind training and also for those inclined in later videos to introduce the Dharma as a means to a happier mind.
My aim is to bring beneficiary practices such as resting awareness, mindfulness in daily activity, releasing anxiety, experiencing joy in meditation etc I would like to do this in an effort to benefit those who are not inclined toward Buddhism as a path and also to offer a westernised introduction to Buddhist ideas. Styled in such a way as to be more engaging and relatable to the Non-Buddhist or layman in the West.
Problem is, how do I do that while maintaining the respect and reverence for the subject it deserves? I am worried that an overly animated, potentially irreverent presentation of these ideas might offend other Buddhists. Most of the videos I watch approach Buddhism with an air of calm which although absolutely correct might be difficult for some to relate to. Seeing wisdom instead as 'religion' in their minds and being unwilling or unable to engage in the message and meaning.

How do you think such an idea should be approached properly?
I would I think send videos to well established Buddhist perhaps for approval first? That might be an idea?
Go for it! And don't worry about offending anybody. You could present it from a personal pov, talking about practices that have helped you, and how you have integrated them into your life. As long as you are not representing yourself as an authority on the subject, it could be very helpful if you presented as person currently learning yourself, as we all are. So less teaching, more relating to others.

I would avoid the "westernized introduction to Buddhism" though. In fact, I would avoid Buddhism altogether. There are plenty of useful practices that don't need to be couched as Buddhist. Simple breath following, paying attention to the task at hand, sitting down and being quiet, etc.

Silent reflection has no East of West, no beginner or advanced, and Buddhists don't own it.

_/|\_
When walking, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking,
being silent, moving, being still.
At all times, in all places, without interruption - what is this?
One mind is infinite kalpas.

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avatamsaka3
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by avatamsaka3 »

I wonder if I could get some advice? I was thinking of making a channel bringing practical advise on meditation and introductory mind training and also for those inclined in later videos to introduce the Dharma as a means to a happier mind.
You could interview good monks and senior practitioners to get their perspectives on topics of interest.
Most of the videos I watch approach Buddhism with an air of calm which although absolutely correct might be difficult for some to relate to. Seeing wisdom instead as 'religion' in their minds and being unwilling or unable to engage in the message and meaning.
Then what are you suggesting?
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by muni »

I would say if you have the intention to help people to relax a bit, find calm mind in whatever way, I cannot see harm in this. In these days it could be very appreciated.

Another possibility is to point to an Awaken Master ( in your channel you talked about) who is not there to make religious people nor Buddhist of them but to help to awaken ( if there is interest) or at least to reduce suffering in the possible way. They ( Awaken Nature) are beyond culture and tradition and will use ways which are not contradicting the Buddha's teaching ( Buddha = Awaken) while more appropriate for them to help.



May your practice flourish.
muni
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by muni »

Regarding Buddhism the reason I point to a Master is because I have not the right to give any advice regarding practices or study. There are too many different practices one for each one. There are Masters who are able to know what is needful and are available even now during the pandemic. Life is impermanent. Better to listen to them right now then to any opinion of me.

Just some examples as Dzogchen, Zen Masters.... are not excluding any fellow.

I think an exclusion would contradict the Buddha's teaching.

However how to come to know a Master is awaken is not so easy for us, it needs some clarity of our own mind but we can watch the behavior. Compassionate, actions by unbiased mind, by wisdom.
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by seeker242 »

TannersHatch wrote: Sun Dec 05, 2021 12:44 pm How do you think such an idea should be approached properly?
Any way you want. Nobody has a monopoly on these ideas nor should they. If other people are offended by you trying to help people, that's really quite childish.
One should not kill any living being, nor cause it to be killed, nor should one incite any other to kill. Do never injure any being, whether strong or weak, in this entire universe!
TannersHatch
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Re: Buddhist ideas for the Non-Buddhist

Post by TannersHatch »

muni wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:50 am May your practice flourish.
Thank you muni. I'm very appreciative of your advice. (And for the advice of everyone who's commented).
I think pointing toward a master is an excellent idea.
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